Engine Differences of the 350R

[honeybadger]

1. Of interesting note, the GR3Z part runs about double the cost of the FR3Z part through Whitebearlake ($166 vs $78)

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[btown93]

1. Of interesting note, the GR3Z part runs about double the cost of the FR3Z part through Whitebearlake ($166 vs $78)

perhaps this is the simplest answer on why the base 350 has the coyote bits. Cost.

 

[svttim]

Checked with a Friend who verified with someone who knows, the GT350/R engines are physically the same with different calibrations

 

[cosmo]

Checked with a Friend who verified with someone who knows, the GT350/R engines are physically the same with different calibrations

Too early to make that call. Let's see if we get a picture of the R phaser. There's evidence of a GR3E phaser existing with ties to the GT350R in an internal Ford system, and we know of a FR3E part physicaslly coming out of a GT350.

 

[svttim]

Too early to make that call. Let's see if we get a picture of the R phaser. There's evidence of a GR3E phaser existing with ties to the GT350R in an internal Ford system, and we know of a FR3E part physicaslly coming out of a GT350.

Until proven otherwise, going to believe my contact from Ford. Not saying he cant be wrong just not very likley

 

[Hack]

Too early to make that call. Let's see if we get a picture of the R phaser. There's evidence of a GR3E phaser existing with ties to the GT350R in an internal Ford system, and we know of a FR3E part physicaslly coming out of a GT350.

There are multiple confirmations in this thread that they use the same parts. But hey, if you are up for doing more checks, by all means have at it.

 

[btown93]

There are multiple confirmations in this thread that they use the same parts. But hey, if you are up for doing more checks, by all means have at it.

You don't find it significant that the Bill of Materials shows different part numbers for 2 different VIN numbers?

 

[Hack]

1FATP8JZXH5526239 gt350r on ebay

Ford parts catalog shows BR3Z 6500 A for lash adjusters and FR3Z 6C525 B for phasers
Ford HVBOM (bill of materials) shows GR3Z 6500 A and GR3Z 6C525 B

I think Mr Turner has good information.

Non R vin shows BR3Z 6500 A and FR3Z 6C525 B in catalog and in HVBOM

You don't find it significant that the Bill of Materials shows different part numbers for 2 different VIN numbers?

I see what you are saying - there are 4 bills of material listed and 1 of the 4 shows a different PN. I missed that before. I just saw the three that were all the same.

 

[cosmo]

I see what you are saying - there are 4 bills of material listed and 1 of the 4 shows a different PN. I missed that before. I just saw the three that were all the same.

Yes, that finding is what makes me believe there is something here.

Whether or not it is significant, I don't really care. I am just trying to get to the bottom of whether or not the GT350 and GT350R engines are identical or not.

 

[btown93]

It's certainly compelling evidence especially since it lines up with the article written by Editor Turner.

 

[btown93]

There are multiple confirmations in this thread that they use the same parts. But hey, if you are up for doing more checks, by all means have at it.

I see what you are saying - there are 4 bills of material listed and 1 of the 4 shows a different PN. I missed that before. I just saw the three that were all the same.

Yes, that finding is what makes me believe there is something here.

Whether or not it is significant, I don't really care. I am just trying to get to the bottom of whether or not the GT350 and GT350R engines are identical or not.

Some were using the ford parts catalog as confirmation that the part numbers were the same for R and non R. Most of the time catalog is accurate. From time to time, in the parts world you have to check whats called HVBOM (Historical Vehicle Bill of Material) in the event of a discrepancy. Until someone actually pulls the parts out the engines in question, we won't know for sure. It's interesting to me that this corroborates the article.

 

[honeybadger]

Another non-R owner confirmed the FR3Z in their car.

 

[JAJ]

So, hiding in plain sight on the FP website, there's this:

M-6004-A50R

Variable Cam Timing (VCT) phasers require proper oil pressure to function correctly. It is inherent that all cam phasers have a certain oil leak rate. These high-performance cam phasers have a much lower leak rate than stock, allowing better control of the phasers at higher engine speeds and loads. These cam phasers are oriented for racing applications.

• Fits 2015-2017 Mustang GT 5.0L
• Original equipment on 2017-2018 Mustang GT350 5.2L
• Includes 2 intake cam phasers
• Includes 2 exhaust cam phasers

Note that it doesn't say that they were OE on 2016 or 2015 GT350's. So there was a running change in 2017, although HB's 2017 came with the older ones.

The problem that the original ones could create would show up as a cam timing error, which might throw a code and put the engine into limp mode. Some early cars did that, and this could be why. But it couldn't lead to damaged engines or high oil consumption, so, while it's interesting, it's not significant.

 

[GT350-H6088]

I disagree, evidence is too strong here. In other pictures in the article, you can see the stamping at angles which would be too obnoxious to Photoshop.

https://www.fordnxt.com/tech-storie...ms-build-the-shelby-gt350s-voodoo-5-2-engine/

The stampings have a different depth with the X's and the GR3E part number, that's why they look different. They're done at a different facility with a different tool.

Also, we have a forum member here who was genuine enough to post his photo of a confirmed GT350 phaser. Two different GT350 engines (a GT350 and a GT350R) with different parts. This also explains the difference in base part numbers between the GT350 and GT350R.

Do we actually have a picture of a GT350R phaser? the one from the artical may not be an "R" engine we don't know. Like Dominator961 said, "fake news"
What are the part numbers for the two motors?
The Engine ID Tags only show build date (intended as a serial number), Plant code, and the Calibration code.

My contact at ford says there is no difference in the two engines, the "R" has some different calibrations due to rotational weight reduction and
the removal of the resonators, these calibrations are very minor and mostly are emissions related.

 

[cosmo]

Do we actually have a picture of a GT350R phaser? the one from the artical may not be an "R" engine we don't know. Like Dominator961 said, "fake news"
What are the part numbers for the two motors?
The Engine ID Tags only show build date (intended as a serial number), Plant code, and the Calibration code.

My contact at ford says there is no difference in the two engines, the "R" has some different calibrations due to rotational weight reduction and
the removal of the resonators, these calibrations are very minor and mostly are emissions related.

Engine tag doesn't show calibration code, that's incorrect. The calibration code, if it was on a sticker, would be on the PCM where the calibration is loaded. The operators don't look at the engine code sticker to see what calibration they load, they push a button which loads the calibration based on the VIN which has other items tied to it apart from just the engine. What's on the label is the engine code (the part number of the engine) itself.

We have internal Ford BOMs showing a different part number for each engine leading credence to them being different. And a Ford contact saying all GT350s come with the GR3E which we know is false now, leading me to believe "inside sources" don't know what they're talking about.

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