Deatschwerks X3 Fuel system

[LOL WUT]

If there’s a brushed pump bigger than the dw400 that includes an integral check valve and venturi connection, I’d like to know about it.

Otherwise, the dw400/bap will support 900+ whp at 20 volts, and it’s rated for this voltage.

Thanks Mike, sounds like a boosted DW400 is the best route for me if I ever decide to yank my TI274s.

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[J17GT]

Thanks Mike, sounds like a boosted DW400 is the best route for me if I ever decide to yank my TI274s.

I plan to run my 274s for one more season (two years total), then swap them out for DW400s in my Radium bucket. Considering how critical the pumps are, they are not all that expense to swap them out every few years for good measure. Maybe it’s overkill, but I’m good with it.

 

[mejohn50]

I’m surprised this thing hasn’t gained more popularity on the S550. It’ll supply any amount of fuel just about any of us will ever need, it can be controlled in a variety of ways including a PWM input from the PCM, it’s a single pump, and there are off the shelf components that can adapt it to our platform. I believe the price has been reduced quite a bit as well.

https://www.t1racedevelopment.com/product/injector-dynamics-fps1100/

 

[Cordero1]

I’m surprised this thing hasn’t gained more popularity on the S550. It’ll supply any amount of fuel just about any of us will ever need, it can be controlled in a variety of ways including a PWM input from the PCM, it’s a single pump, and there are off the shelf components that can adapt it to our platform. I believe the price has been reduced quite a bit as well.

https://www.t1racedevelopment.com/product/injector-dynamics-fps1100/

Maybe due to the price & still needing to buy the rest of it to make it a kit.

 

[Cordero1]

I didn't know shit about fueling. After this thread I think I'm even more confused. I thought I had it figured out. Simple deadhead system with a radium bucket was my plan. Now I'm starting all over again.

 

[NGOT8R]

I didn't know shit about fueling. After this thread I think I'm even more confused. I thought I had it figured out. Simple deadhead system with a radium bucket was my plan. Now I'm starting all over again.

I’m right there with you brother. I know what I want though and that’s a reliable system that has more than enough headroom to support my power goals, in addition to being a somewhat simple installation.

It looks like I’ll be adding the VaporWorx PWM retuenless controller to my setup.
it seems like just as soon as I think I have my parts list complete for this turbo mod, it starts growing legs again.

 

[mejohn50]

Maybe due to the price & still needing to buy the rest of it to make it a kit.

$7-10k forced induction kit
$2500 axles
$1000 injectors
$1500 tuning
$2000 headers
$2000 exhaust
$1000 drive shaft
$1000 OPGs and timing gear
$5000 fuel system

After this thread I think I'm even more confused. I thought I had it figured out. Simple deadhead system with a radium bucket was my plan. Now I'm starting all over again.

I am a huge fan of the Radium bucket if moving away from the OEM bucket. I’ve often pondered what a single DW400 with BAP in a Radium bucket with a -8 feed line in a return-less setup could do. As we have seen with the info @engineermike has shared, the DW400 with BAP in the OEM bucket with OEM fuel line and careful tuning can support A LOT. If I remember correctly, some of the big name tuners used to tune that setup on E85 with boost but most (all?) appear to have stopped. I have cynical speculations as to why they stopped, none of which are because it’s a bad setup.

I‘m also a huge fan of a single pump solution when possible. The OEM GT500 pumps are one exception to that, but even if adding a second FPDM circuit for the second pump on a GT, you don’t get the diag/feedback for the second pump. So it can fail and you wouldn’t get a MIL for the failure.

In my extremely humble (and likely worthless) opinion, multi-pump setups in open hangers are bad, and multi-pump setups in a bucket are less bad but still not ideal. One pump in a bucket with as much OEM control and feedback as possible is ideal.

When my car was boosted I ran the DW400+BAP on E85 up to 16psi with no issues, but I tuned the car myself so I didn’t have to rely on a tuner telling me I need a level 99 fuel system and enormous injectors to make ~800whp.

 

[NGOT8R]

@mejohn50 there’s definitely some truth to that checklist.

Add on a box for valve train upgrades to support high boost and prevent valve float (i.e. heavy duty springs, possible cam caps, bronze valve guides, new valve seals, timing chains and tensioners etc.).

 

[engineermike]

When my car was boosted I ran the DW400+BAP on E85 up to 16psi with no issues, but I tuned the car myself so I didn’t have to rely on a tuner telling me I need a level 99 fuel system and enormous injectors to make ~800whp.

The bap/dw400 is a seriously underrated setup. It will flow enough fuel to max out id1050s.

It seems to have a stigma as a bandaided setup but the jms bap has current limits to protect the stock wiring and fpdm, and dw rates the pump for continuous 20 volts. Every component is run within its allowable envelope, with none of the drawbacks of the multi-pump, bucketless, return-style, filterless, full-on/staged, non-predictive/closed loop control, diagnosticless, expensive setups.

 

[NGOT8R]

The bap/dw400 is a seriously underrated setup. It will flow enough fuel to max out id1050s.

It seems to have a stigma as a bandaided setup but the jms bap has current limits to protect the stock wiring and fpdm, and dw rates the pump for continuous 20 volts. Every component is run within its allowable envelope, with none of the drawbacks of the multi-pump, bucketless, return-style, filterless, full-on/staged, non-predictive/closed loop control, diagnosticless, expensive setups.

I agree that a single DW400 and JMS BAP is a great setup. I have them both in my car now. However, I don’t think I’ll get away with just one on the factory 3/8 returnless line shooting for 1000 whp. I do think it’s plenty for around 750 hp at the crank on E85 (even more on 93) though.

 

[NGOT8R]

Watch out for the nylon portion of the factory fuel line too. Mine blew out back by the pump, prompting me to remove the whole factory line and replace it with an E85 compatible line. It looked very cheaply made IMO and I was happy to get away from it.

some relevant information relating to the JMS BAP and factory fuel line.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/2019-bullitt-fuel-pump-driver-module-failure.201965/

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/2019-bullitt-fuel-line-leak.197116/

 

[Cordero1]

$7-10k forced induction kit
$2500 axles
$1000 injectors
$1500 tuning
$2000 headers
$2000 exhaust
$1000 drive shaft
$1000 OPGs and timing gear
$5000 fuel system



I am a huge fan of the Radium bucket if moving away from the OEM bucket. I’ve often pondered what a single DW400 with BAP in a Radium bucket with a -8 feed line in a return-less setup could do. As we have seen with the info @engineermike has shared, the DW400 with BAP in the OEM bucket with OEM fuel line and careful tuning can support A LOT. If I remember correctly, some of the big name tuners used to tune that setup on E85 with boost but most (all?) appear to have stopped. I have cynical speculations as to why they stopped, none of which are because it’s a bad setup.

I‘m also a huge fan of a single pump solution when possible. The OEM GT500 pumps are one exception to that, but even if adding a second FPDM circuit for the second pump on a GT, you don’t get the diag/feedback for the second pump. So it can fail and you wouldn’t get a MIL for the failure.

In my extremely humble (and likely worthless) opinion, multi-pump setups in open hangers are bad, and multi-pump setups in a bucket are less bad but still not ideal. One pump in a bucket with as much OEM control and feedback as possible is ideal.

When my car was boosted I ran the DW400+BAP on E85 up to 16psi with no issues, but I tuned the car myself so I didn’t have to rely on a tuner telling me I need a level 99 fuel system and enormous injectors to make ~800whp.

I understand what you mean & I don't plan on going cheap with my fuel budget but that is a reason many don't go that route of the link you shared. Although I never have heard of it before it seems like very awesome next level kit.

 

[Cordero1]

From this thread I have picked up that I want a single brushless pump in a quality hat (radium) with some kind of controller & replace fuel lines but keep it return less. I'll keep taking notes.

 

[NGOT8R]

From this thread I have picked up that I want a single brushless pump in a quality hat (radium) with some kind of controller & replace fuel lines but keep it return less. I'll keep taking notes.

What power level and fuel type do you plan to run?

 

[NGOT8R]

From this thread I have picked up that I want a single brushless pump in a quality hat (radium) with some kind of controller & replace fuel lines but keep it return less. I'll keep taking notes.

If I were staying returnless and running a single pump, the DW810 would be very appealing to me, coupled with larger fuel line.

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