BBQ tick - another attempt to understand

[GT Pony]

Honestly I can stand all these theories. It's just that...theories. Why the heck doesn't Ford just tell us exactly the cause?

They obviously know.

Sure Ford knows ... and how their SSM is worded should give us clues. If Ford says it's not detrimental to the engine then how could it really be cavitation when it's known that cavitation will do damage at some point.

SO, yeah, if it was just cavitation, and the tick develops with aging oil on the original fill, you would think it would go away when you change the oil to fresh oil. Yet, with mine it didn't. It got even more noticeable.

As mentioned before, if you research a lot about oils it's a know phenomenon that when new oil is used it will strip away some of the anti-wear additive layer that was built-up during the previous run of oil. So again, it seems to point to the ticking being a function of the friction. That, and of course adding Ceratec changes the whole friction factor. Friction level on the big ends of the rods + excessive side clearance is the formula I've always thought made the most sense, but hey it's still just a "theory".

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[GT 550]

Sure Ford knows ... and how their SSM is worded should give us clues. If Ford says it's not detrimental to the engine then how could it really be cavitation when it's known that cavitation will do damage at some point. .

Maybe it's cavitation but in their opinion not serious enough to be an issue, although you'd expect it to be there from the get go. A company here called Streetfighter is claiming that the oil pump in 2015-17 cars has a harmonic that's killing RHD oil coolers, unfortunately they haven't tested an 18+ yet.

 

[GT Pony]

One case leads me to believe it's not cavitation, but instead related to the friction between parts.

Someone here had the BBQ tick, so he added Ceratec and ran the oil many thousands of miles. Since Ceratec claims the treatment lasts many miles once used, the next oil change he used the same oil but didn't put any Ceratec back in. His BBQ tick was stll gone. If the ticking was really caused by oil cavitation then it would have shown back up with the new untreated oil. The friction between parts remained low from the Ceratec treatment, so the only logical conclusion is the tick is related to the level of friction on the parts. Excessive rod side clearance that is affected by the friction level on those parts is still the main suspect IMO.

If the member I'm talking about is reading this, please chime in and add any info about your experience.

 

[Kirgiz]

One case leads me to believe it's not cavitation, but instead related to the friction between parts.

Someone here had the BBQ tick, so he added Ceratec and ran the oil many thousands of miles. Since Ceratec claims the treatment lasts many miles once used, the next oil change he used the same oil but didn't put any Ceratec .

This is just marketing bullshit. You try to draw conclusions from one case - when there are hundreds of variables in engine.
Waste of time. Most probably this is rod knock. Why is it occurring after, before oil change etc. and can change over time is because of complexity of processes going on in engine.

 

[GT Pony]

This is just marketing bullshit. You try to draw conclusions from one case - when there are hundreds of variables in engine.
Waste of time. Most probably this is rod knock. Why is it occurring after, before oil change etc. and can change over time is because of complexity of processes going on in engine.

Yeah, and based on all the info posted about the ticking, it's obviously affected by the level of lubrication friction. Even though that's one example, it's a valid data point. If others repeated that same procedure the result would most likely be repeatable.

It changes over time because oil changes as miles go on it. That's something that a lot of people don't realize or understand. Go read bobistheoilguy if you want your mind blown about oil and lubrication.

Nothing is a waste of time when searching for a root cause. Need to think way outside the box on this one.

 

[bootlegger]

So, we are on the same page that this clearance issue is not really changing or getting bigger. That means the clearance problem was from the factory.

From the factory...No tick with fresh oil, and no anti-wear additives built up on the surfaces of a brand new engine. So, how could the clearance problem be from the factory?

Oil ages, and tick starts with original oil, even when slowly building up anti-wear additives on the surfaces. That makes no sense. For those that have no tick with original oil....

...First oil change with superior oil, and higher shear strength, the tick starts (Ok, so the carbon and additives strip away). This makes sense initially.

As oil ages on second oil change, it readily gets quieter as carbon builds up over time in some cases, but not all.

If the source of the noise IS a clearance problem, then it has to be a clearance problem that grows over time, as the tick readily develops with use, and not just from an oil change. Wear should then be visible, and the filters should have evidence of metal, or in the oil samples.

Factory fill oil is almost always different than regular shelf oil. I used to work for the company that formulated the additive packaged for that, though I was on the fuels side.

 

[Timeless]

Factory fill oil is almost always different than regular shelf oil. I used to work for the company that formulated the additive packaged for that, though I was on the fuels side.

On my 2016 RS it was definitely different. Had a greenish cast to it. Did not look at the oil in the 2019 GT CS.

 

[Rick B]

In regards to video. It doesn't look like rod knock looking at the bearings. Of course they didn't measure crank or rods with a micrometer. They also didn't show crankshaft rod taper, or scuffing of crank side clearance area. I also want to see the VVT chain area. The hydraulic chain tensioner has always been suspect in my mind.

 

[whowasthat]

would a blackstone oil analysis show anything to help prove the tick?

 

[GT Pony]

would a blackstone oil analysis show anything to help prove the tick?

A UOA would only show wear metal levels. It might give a hint, but could never say it was a specific part being worn. A teardown with clearance checks and visual wear inspection would be the sure way to home in on it.

 

[Condor1970]

A UOA would only show wear metal levels. It might give a hint, but could never say it was a specific part being worn. A teardown with clearance checks and visual wear inspection would be the sure way to home in on it.

That, and the fact that the overwhelming majority of UOA's don't seem to to show anything at all.

Even after thousands of miles driven with a tick that would equate to Chinese water torture.

 

[kluke15]

This is just marketing bullshit. You try to draw conclusions from one case - when there are hundreds of variables in engine.
Waste of time. Most probably this is rod knock. Why is it occurring after, before oil change etc. and can change over time is because of complexity of processes going on in engine.

its not one case tho. i had the tick, ceratec worked and hasnt been back since. i know of at least several others on this forum with the same experience. still tons of variables but the one that seems to be consistent from those with the actual tick is that ceratec reduces/eliminates the tick

 

[GT 550]

I also want to see the VVT chain area. The hydraulic chain tensioner has always been suspect in my mind.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/ford-tsb-18-2360-2018-19-5-0-coyote-vct-solenoid.113879/

Or maybe the VCT solenoid.

 

[NIXPP2]

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/ford-tsb-18-2360-2018-19-5-0-coyote-vct-solenoid.113879/

Or maybe the VCT solenoid.

A 5.4, but I'll be damned if that's not exactly the sound...

 

[bootlegger]

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/ford-tsb-18-2360-2018-19-5-0-coyote-vct-solenoid.113879/

Or maybe the VCT solenoid.

No Mention of tick or rattle though. I don't think most have a CEL.

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