BBQ tick - another attempt to understand

[GT Pony]

With high RPM there is a massive amount of oil flow through the filter, which would sweep any trapped air. Highly doubt it's caused by that.

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[Stormtroopin5.0]

With high RPM there is a massive amount of oil flow through the filter, which would sweep any trapped air. Highly doubt it's caused by that.

The cavitation could be a resultant of oil aeration...not saying there is anything definitive to the theory but oil aeration entraps the air long enough for it to become rapidly pressurized inside the lube pump thus causing its velocity to increase and make contact with a metallic object resulting in an audible noise. An idle tick would make some sense with this theory as oil pressure is high and likely bypassing the filter for some length of time. Not to mention as engine speed increases oil aeration would increase due to a limited ability for the oil to lose the entrained air so that could explain some of the complaints of throttle input causing it to get progressively worse. Just a thought....

 

[GT Pony]

An idle tick would make some sense with this theory as oil pressure is high and likely bypassing the filter for some length of time. Not to mention as engine speed increases oil aeration would increase due to a limited ability for the oil to lose the entrained air so that could explain some of the complaints of throttle input causing it to get progressively worse. Just a thought....

Oil pressure is the lowest at an idle because oil flow volume is low, so no way the oil filter is in bypass.

If the oil had lots of aeration you should be able to see it on the dipstick or by looking inside the oil fill cap hole right after a shutdown. If oil aeration was the cause, I'd expect everyone running brand "abc" oil in viscosity "xyx" to have oil aeration problems.

 

[accel]

Would like to share my info from Ford powertrain engineering on the BBQ tick (the random metallic tick at bottom end at idle - Typewriter nosie). From my understanding they dont know what exactly causes the issue on the 5.0, with some engines the oil is forming tiny air bubbles and popping like bubble wrap when getting hit. This is the same tick issue that they had on the diesel engine for 11 years (TSB 46407), which they just solved (I think) last year by re-designing the oil pump. I have been told by egineering there is no durability issue with this BBQ tick, they call it typewiter nosie. Was told by changing to different oil, weight ect... can stop it. Also mixing a teaspoon of a very fine carbon powder that is an ingredient in womens make-up, in a half quart of oil. And pouring it in will stop air bubbles forming instantly, no more tick. I will have this ingredient tomorrow and trying it, on my engine.

To be fair, this is not the only place I read about air bubbling.

There was another thread where stang owner had face to face conversation with ford field engineer and was told something very similar - something about cavitation and air bubbling. I think it is here at this forum.

Field engineer offered some oil additive, but mustang owner requested a new block, do not remrmber long or short.

 

[Condor1970]

.... and since this is all h and happens after oil change and fter is so inconveniently located, I wonder if some air stays there for long time and causes some shit.

I mean, this is just another theory of course. I pre fill filter but it is at around 45 degrees, and if some air gets there it could create some weird things. I mean - what else could be wron with the oil change?

Do any of existing filter relocation kits offer better filter location that would eliminate any air in there?

Then why would my tick start before my first oil change?

My tick started at 800 miles. I changed to Mobil 1 EP at 1,000 miles. It didn't "suddenly" get worse. It was initially the same, and has slowly gotten worse over the last 2,000 miles. Now it is not even present at idle, but slowly changed into a constant tick/knock sound above 1,500rpm.

 

[accel]

Oil additives do not void warranties.

User manual explicitly says not to use additives, says they may destroy the engine, says warranty may be voided.

 

[NastyPumpkin]

User manual explicitly says not to use additives, says they may destroy the engine, says warranty may be voided.

It says "MAY BE". I have never heard of a warranty being voided over additives.

 

[Condor1970]

User manual explicitly says not to use additives, says they may destroy the engine, says warranty may be voided.

It's obvious the reason they say this, is because a lot of oil additives are just snake oil, and actually will cause damage to some engines. I think Slick 50 had a bunch of lawsuits against them for that reason.

Ford however, does like all other manufacturers, acknowledge some additives really are quite effective. The top 3 being Tribotex, Ceratec(or Liquid Moly), and Archoil. Mainly because they all use newer techonology nano-particles like Boron, etc which really do increase lubricity. But because there are so many out there that really do nothing at all, or actually may cause harm, they just say as a blanket statement not to use the stuff.

If Ford was that concerned, and designed the engine to explode into a SUPERNOVA with anything other than Motorcraft oil, and an MC filter, then they wouldn't have their own engineers running around putting XL-17, Liquid Moly, or other stuff into these engines to quiet them down.

 

[accel]

It's obvious the reason they say this, is because a lot of oil additives are just snake oil, and actually will cause damage to some engines. I think Slick 50 had a bunch of lawsuits against them for that reason.

Ford however, does like all other manufacturers, acknowledge some additives really are quite effective. The top 3 being Tribotex, Ceratec(or Liquid Moly), and Archoil. Mainly because they all use newer techonology nano-particles like Boron, etc which really do increase lubricity. But because there are so many out there that really do nothing at all, or actually may cause harm, they just say as a blanket statement not to use the stuff.

If Ford was that concerned, and designed the engine to explode into a SUPERNOVA with anything other than Motorcraft oil, and an MC filter, then they wouldn't have their own engineers running around putting XL-17, Liquid Moly, or other stuff into these engines to quiet them down.

in either event.... if engine sounds healthy only because of some unoficial additive, that's not a good situation. liqui moly discontinues ceratec and what do you do?

I tried ceratec for several hundred miles. It did not fix neutral gear under 2000rpms tick at all. Only under load tick I heard though open windows in drive through situations was gone.

If you are out of warranty that might be ok.

If you are under warranty ford should look into the problem.

 

[Condor1970]

in either event.... if engine sounds healthy only because of some unoficial additive, that's not a good situation. liqui moly discontinues ceratec and what do you do?

I tried ceratec for several hundred miles. It did not fix neutral gear under 2000rpms tick at all. Only under load tick I heard though open windows in drive through situations was gone.

If you are out of warranty that might be ok.

If you are under warranty ford should look into the problem.

I didn't say they shouldn't try to fix the problem. Where did you get that idea?

Your saying you tried Ceratec, and it had no effect on the intermittent low rpm tick? Mine also ticks now under load. I haven't tried any additives, but I am considering using a heavier oil. If you tried Ceratec, and the low rpm tick is still there, then I can't help but wonder if it really isn't some kind of weird oil cavitation or the like.

Heck, I dunno.

 

[accel]

I didn't say they shouldn't try to fix the problem. Where did you get that idea?

Your saying you tried Ceratec, and it had no effect on the intermittent low rpm tick? Mine also ticks now under load. I haven't tried any additives, but I am considering using a heavier oil. If you tried Ceratec, and the low rpm tick is still there, then I can't help but wonder if it really isn't some kind of weird oil cavitation or the like.

Heck, I dunno.

Park, engine warmed up. neutral gear, then in my case I have very particular rpm where the engine would typewrite. This kind of tick ceratec would not fix for me.

But my engine also ticked under light accelerations 1st and 2nd gear somewhere around 2k rpms with windows down and something reflective on the sides. This tick ceratec eliminated.

Since there was no miraculous fix I replaced oil with ceratec fairly soon. Oil recycling locations did not want to take my oil because of the way it looked.

 

[Condor1970]

Park, engine warmed up. neutral gear, then in my case I have very particular rpm where the engine would typewrite. This kind of tick ceratec would not fix for me.

But my engine also ticked under light accelerations 1st and 2nd gear somewhere around 2k rpms with windows down and something reflective on the sides. This tick ceratec eliminated.

Since there was no miraculous fix I replaced oil with ceratec fairly soon. Oil recycling locations did not want to take my oil because of the way it looked.

They wouldn't take it for the way it looked? Seriously?

I just take the jugs back to Walmart, sign the little book and leave it at the counter. They always take it. Never once did they pop the cap, pour it into a clear glass jar and inspect it.

 

[accel]

They wouldn't take it for the way it looked? Seriously?

Yes. And I tell you it does look weird.

 

[accel]

As an observer from what I am reading, this is new to the latest generation of Coyote motors.

All three gens have tick.

 

[88lx50]

Ouch!
Am I mixing up my ticks?
BBQ vs other ticks?
It seems we are not in Kansas anymore Toto

The tick has been around since the Coyote came out in the 2011 model year. I think the low rpm supposed piston slap is new to the 3rd gen Coyote.

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