BBQ tick - another attempt to understand

[NastyPumpkin]

Personally, if a Ford tech actually told me to add carbon, then they must not be too concerned about the use of oil additives voiding warranties. I personally would try a small amount of Liquid Moly, or a half bottle of Ceratec, before I put women's make-up in my engine oil.

Oil additives do not void warranties.

Carbon is not women's make-up. It's used as an ingredient in some make-up, buying it in very fine powder is simple to mix in a small amount of oil.

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[Condor1970]

Oil additives do not void warranties.

Carbon is not women's make-up. It's used as an ingredient in some make-up, buying it in very fine powder is simple to mix in a small amount of oil.

I know that. A lot of the mineral make-ups women use now are basically just different kinds of colored dirt. PURE carbon in a very small amount, certainly won't hurt your engine. However, it's certainly not a benefit either. It's essentially akin to aging your oil by adding something to it that would otherwise naturally build up over time to eventually require your oil to be changed.

 

[careature]

I know that. A lot of the mineral make-ups women use now are basically just different kinds of colored dirt. PURE carbon in a very small amount, certainly won't hurt your engine. However, it's certainly not a benefit either. It's essentially akin to aging your oil by adding something to it that would otherwise naturally build up over time to eventually require your oil to be changed.

Funny... so should we just 1 quart of used oil back in?

 

[Condor1970]

Funny... so should we just 1 quart of used oil back in?

If you think about it, that's why the tick notoriously tends to disappear as the oil ages over a few thousand miles. It's probably due to the carbon buildup from combustion blow-by. That said, I wouldn't necessarily say adding used oil back in is a good idea. Mainly because there is other junk in that oil you don't want in the engine. Like fuel for example. One of the reasons these super long oil intervals has me a bit worried, is that even if the oil is capable of lubricating engine parts for 10,000 or even as much as 20,000 miles, the continuous build up of contaminants really doesn't change, and will only get worse the older the oil is. I personally would never want to have oil in my engine for over 7,500, or 10,000 miles at the most, because the "potential" for fuel dilution alone would concern me.

If you really wanted to add a contaminant to your oil, then PURE carbon would be better than used oil. Here I am now, advocating the purposeful contamination of engine oil. I can't believe I just said that.

 

[GT Pony]

I'm leery about the oil cavitation theory. If Ford knows the BBQ tick is from oil cavitation, then:
1) Why haven't they put out a TSB over the last 7 years explaining the issue?
2) Why are they replacing short/long blocks if it's "normal" and not harmful?
3) Why haven't they made design changes to the oil pump or bearings to mitigate possible cavitation? The Gen3 Coyote is a totally new design, so Ford had a chance to redesign to fix the tick if it is design related.
4) If oil related, why not changing the formulation of Motorcraft oil to help prevent cavitation?

If the cavitation noise was in the oil pump, then why would Ford replace a short block instead of just the oil pump?

If cavitation is caused by the mechanical design of the pump or bearings, then why don't all Coyotes tick? Is there that much difference in parts dimensions, and is cavitation that sensitive to parts design and dimentional tolerances? Seems like there would be a hell of a lot cars on the road with ticking engines if that was true.

 

[Condor1970]

^^^ All VERY good points.

That said, my light intermittent BBQ tick at idle has transformed into a constant ticking above 1,500rpm. I have a sneaky suspicion mine is more like a rod knock now.

However, I won't know for another few weeks after they get the new clutch installed. So, all I can do like the rest of us, is theorize until I get my car back.

 

[careature]

I'm leery about the oil cavitation theory. If Ford knows the BBQ tick is from oil cavitation, then:
1) Why haven't they put out a TSB over the last 7 years explaining the issue?
2) Why are they replacing short/long blocks if it's "normal" and not harmful?
3) Why haven't they made design changes to the oil pump or bearings to mitigate possible cavitation? The Gen3 Coyote is a totally new design, so Ford had a chance to redesign to fix the tick if it is design related.
4) If oil related, why not changing the formulation of Motorcraft oil to help prevent cavitation?

If the cavitation noise was in the oil pump, then why would Ford replace a short block instead of just the oil pump?

If cavitation is caused by the mechanical design of the pump or bearings, then why don't all Coyotes tick? Is there that much difference in parts dimensions, and is cavitation that sensitive to parts design and dimentional tolerances? Seems like there would be a hell of a lot cars on the road with ticking engines if that was true.

Agree with all points.

 

[stangman638]

constant ticking above 1,500rpm. I have a sneaky suspicion mine is more like a rod knock now.

That's how mine is, at idle it rarely makes noise any more, even stranger, the colder it is outside the more likely I dont hear it on startup.

Is he a shill for ford? Just joined and has insider knowledge from the engineers? LOL

 

[GregO]

I recall some time ago how oil anti-foam agents were depleted in the HEUI diesel motors due to reaction with exposure to silicone seals and RTV sealant.
The depleted anti-foam property’s caused oil aeration leading to a host of performance issues and noise.
With this said, is their merit in suggesting that the 5.0’s may be experiencing like issues and it’s the anti-foam agents in diesel oils that some are running with success.
Could Diesel oils anti-foam properties be the reason the BBQ Tick / typewriter noise is reduced and or no longer audible ?
Just throwing that out there. I’d wager most API SN Motor oils have very little to zero anti-foam agents.
Fleetrite (Navistar) has an anti-foam supplement CH1824392. Some Power Stroke diesel guys may remember the days of adding the anti-foam to their oil in the days of the 7.3 / 6.0 HEUI motors.

 

[NastyPumpkin]

That's how mine is, at idle it rarely makes noise any more, even stranger, the colder it is outside the more likely I dont hear it on startup.

Is he a shill for ford? Just joined and has insider knowledge from the engineers? LOL

LOL! No shill, just trying to find answers on this damm tick. Hope this carbon test works tomorrow, if not I have something else going on.

If it works, I will run it for 1000 miles. Change the oil with Pennzoil ultra platinum 5W 30 and see what happens.

 

[GT Pony]

I’d wager most API SN Motor oils have very little to zero anti-foam agents.

API rated oils have to meet some level of anti-foaming performance. If certain motor oils were bad foamers, more engines besides the Coyote would be having issues from foaming oil.

 

[careature]

API rated oils have to meet some level of anti-foaming performance. If certain motor oils were bad foamers, more engines besides the Coyote would be having issues from foaming oil.

hm... but still if it's due to bubbling, then extra anti foam to the oil that lets tick happen should help.

 

[GregO]

API rated oils have to meet some level of anti-foaming performance. If certain motor oils were bad foamers, more engines besides the Coyote would be having issues from foaming oil.

I’m not sure, I’m only throwing out a suggestion regarding Spark Ignition motor oil anti-foam vs Compression Ignition anti-foam.
This is easy enough to try, get a bottle of Fleetrite defoamer and add the correct amount to the oil sump.
Or....... try
Rotella T-6 0W-40 gas/diesel oil.
Amsoil Series 3000 5W-30 gas/diesel oil.
I don’t have a BBQ tick so I can’t help, I’d have no issues trying either of the suggestions above.

 

[Condor1970]

The question is, when the tick becomes more rhythmic with engine rpm, like mine above 1,500rpm, is that still just vapor bubbles in the oil, or has it turned into something else by this time? This video is exactly what is going on with mine. The idle tick is now gone, but when I rev it up, the tick comes in intermittently, then constant above 1,500rpm. Watch how his tick becomes more constant as he revs up to 1,500rpm. I can't help but think that bearing damage is occurring when it gets to where it's no longer intermittent.

 

[careature]

.... and since this is all h and happens after oil change and fter is so inconveniently located, I wonder if some air stays there for long time and causes some shit.

I mean, this is just another theory of course. I pre fill filter but it is at around 45 degrees, and if some air gets there it could create some weird things. I mean - what else could be wron with the oil change?

Do any of existing filter relocation kits offer better filter location that would eliminate any air in there?

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