Deatschwerks X3 Fuel system

[NGOT8R]

Im not sure this controller has this ability. Mine is using a 3 BAR Bosch map sensor to determine pump speed, but it's still responding, "after the fact".

Tell me more about your MAP sensor setup. Is the FPDM pulse positive or negative? This was a question that VaporWorx asked me and I couldn’t provide an answer

It sounds like your MAP sensor is a stand alone setup. If so, how much end user input is involved in keeping it functioning properly?

Is a Coyote boost vacuum distribution block kit needed to run a stand alone?

https://motionraceworks.com/product...cuum-distribution-block-kit-manifold-pressure

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[SheepDog]

Tell me more about your MAP sensor setup. Is the FPDM pulse positive or negative? This was a question that VaporWorx asked me and I couldn’t provide an answer

It sounds like your MAP sensor is a stand alone setup. If so, how much end user input is involved in keeping it functioning properly?

Is a Coyote boost vacuum distribution block kit needed to run a stand alone?

https://motionraceworks.com/product...cuum-distribution-block-kit-manifold-pressure

I don't know how the OEM FPDM pulses. Like you said, my setup is using his MAP sensor and wiring harness to control pump speed, but it would be great if he would develop a controller with a connector to plug right into the OEM FPDM harness and use that input instead.

I installed my MAP sensor right next to my vacuum block, so that the vacuum tube was as short as possible. The kit comes with a wiring harness that is like 30 feet long, so it made sense to me to install the MAP sensor as close to the engine as possible, then run the harness back to the controller in the trunk.

I would always recommend using a vacuum block to distribute your boost/vacuum sources. Using T's in my opinion is not ideal.

Aside from setup, there really is no end user involvement. The controller is providing the power and ground to the MAP sensor and receives a 5-volt reference from it. The only adjustment you make is setting up the idle voltage going to the pumps. (Not really changing the voltage, but rather the pulsing or frequency. The controller is pulsing voltage to the pumps off and on thousands of times per second, so on a voltmeter, you see the average voltage). So, you turn the tiny dial on the controller while the engine is running so that your first pump is only seeing about 9 volts, and the second pump is seeing around 11 volts.

As soon as the controller sees anything above your idle vacuum, it starts increasing the speed of the pumps. Once it sees around 3 PSI of boost, it triggers all the pumps to 100%. This is what helps extend the life of the pumps and keeps them and the fuel cooler. When you are just cruising around, or on the highway, the pumps aren't running full tilt

I have spoken to Carl many times, he's a stand up guy, and really smart when it comes to these topics.

 

[NGOT8R]

I don't know how the OEM FPDM pulses. Like you said, my setup is using his MAP sensor and wiring harness to control pump speed, but it would be great if he would develop a controller with a connector to plug right into the OEM FPDM harness and use that input instead.

I have spoken to Carl many times, he's a stand up guy, and really smart when it comes to these topics.

Carl told me that when he gets a chance on Sunday, he’ll take a look at some FPDM diagrams that I sent him to see if he can decipher whether the signal is positive or negative and get back to me.

many pics of your vacuum block and MAP sensor mounted? What brands are they?

 

[SheepDog]

Carl told me that when he gets a chance on Sunday, he’ll take a look at some FPDM diagrams that I sent him to see if he can decipher whether the signal is positive or negative and get back to me.

many pics of your vacuum block and MAP sensor mounted? What brands are they?

Yeah, as soon as I started talking to him, I was trying to convince him to make a kit specifically for the S550 Crowd. If his controller operated off of OEM logic and control, he'd sell hundreds of them.

I'll take a picture here in a little while and post it.

The MAP sensor is a Bosch/AC Delco 3 bar MAP sensor, and his Vaporworx mounting block. that then has a small section of vacuum tube that goes to my vacuum distribution block.

 

[engineermike]

Not sure who your tuner is, but I do know that after initially having some fuel trim issues where my trims would sort of wander all over the place, Wengerd had to make some adjustment in my calibration so that it would "reflect' that of a returnless system. After that, my trims were dead nuts on.

"set up the injector flow rates as returnless on the new revision so it still calculates fuel pressure to modify the injectors flow rates unlike a return system that keeps a 1/1 delivered pressure". (DW, 2024)

If your Tuner is Wengerd, he will know what to do, if not, you're doing it wrong.

One of the advancements of the gen3 over the gen2 was the addition of a fuel pressure sensor and logic that adjusts pulsewidth for variations in *actual* fuel pressure. Then ID went and confused the hell out of everyone by supplying injector data for “return style systems” that assumes the pressure is constant. There is absolutely no advantage to using this injector data. ID also supplies data that adapts to actual pressure, which really should be used in all cases. DW just swapped the wrong one out for the right one.

 

[SheepDog]

One of the advancements of the gen3 over the gen2 was the addition of a fuel pressure sensor and logic that adjusts pulsewidth for variations in *actual* fuel pressure. Then ID went and confused the hell out of everyone by supplying injector data for “return style systems” that assumes the pressure is constant. There is absolutely no advantage to using this injector data. ID also supplies data that adapts to actual pressure, which really should be used in all cases. DW just swapped the wrong one out for the right one.

I assume then that FIC did the same thing, as I have the FIC1000 injectors.

 

[NGOT8R]

Since this is a fuel discussion, does anyone know of any pros/cons to deleting the direct injectors, given that I‘ll be running DW1500cc injectors with my fuel system?

 

[engineermike]

Since this is a fuel discussion, does anyone know of any pros/cons to deleting the direct injectors, given that I‘ll be running DW1500cc injectors with my fuel system?

Di helps prevent knock, especially with ethanol blends. It also increases VE and, thus, power. Beyond that, there are real tuning issues with deleting gdi. The embedded Bosch code does not like to run without it, even if you switch it off in the tuning. I have not yet been able to get a gdi-delete car to stay in closed loop.

 

[NGOT8R]

Di helps prevent knock, especially with ethanol blends. It also increases VE and, thus, power. Beyond that, there are real tuning issues with deleting gdi. The embedded Bosch code does not like to run without it, even if you switch it off in the tuning. I have not yet been able to get a gdi-delete car to stay in closed loop.

What have you seen in terms of dirty/clogged Di? Is there even an upgraded injector for these?

 

[engineermike]

What have you seen in terms of dirty/clogged Di? Is there even an upgraded injector for these?

Have not seen any dirty or clogged. Xdi sells upgraded di injectors and pump. I have their pump. In your case I would just leave the gdi system stock.

 

[engineermike]

I assume then that FIC did the same thing, as I have the FIC1000 injectors.

Quick search shows their data set up for variable fuel pressure, which is good. But it’s super easy to convert it to assumed constant pressure…

 

[SheepDog]

Yeah, as soon as I started talking to him, I was trying to convince him to make a kit specifically for the S550 Crowd. If his controller operated off of OEM logic and control, he'd sell hundreds of them.

I'll take a picture here in a little while and post it.

The MAP sensor is a Bosch/AC Delco 3 bar MAP sensor, and his Vaporworx mounting block. that then has a small section of vacuum tube that goes to my vacuum distribution block.

Here is how I have mine installed.

 

[SheepDog]

Now Im working on a cover for the controller and wiring. As you can see, these Vaporworx controllers have exposed terminals. I never have anything in the trunk, but you never know

 

[HKusp]

Now Im working on a cover for the controller and wiring. As you can see, these Vaporworx controllers have exposed terminals. I never have anything in the trunk, but you never know

Liquid electrical tape those terminals.

 

[svomadness]

Very interesting thread here so I thought I would join in for the first time and attempt to contribute. Looks like to me based off the dual pump GT500 diagram that FPC (control) is the power side and FPM (monitor) is the ground side. Likely that Ford is using the ground to control PWM. The GT diagram is the same, just with a single FPCM. Would love to see a PWM controller option from VaporWorks.

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