Deatschwerks X3 Fuel system

[Cordero1]

If I were staying returnless and running a single pump, the DW810 would be very appealing to me, coupled with larger fuel line.

Yeah I thought about that one from reading here, but the kit from JPT doesn't allow that option of pumps. I want to stay at 850whp on pump e85 with the possibility of going onto 1k territory once engine/trans is upgraded

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[Exploded_Muffin]

Not that this helps much @NGOT8R but I've been stung by my brushless pumps twice now.
Was previously running twin Walbro 295s (No issues at all with this setup) at 1000whp and switched to twin Fuelab brushless pumps all with a Radium bucket.

Purchased the Fuelab brushless pump setup in August and by the end of September was experiencing bad fuel pressure drop at WOT on E85 (PCM logic seems to have protected the engine by closing the throttle body to limit boost).
Both pumps ran fine seemingly and I could start and drive the car fine with either pump running individually so no way to detect any failure except going WOT and monitoring fuel pressure.
Sent both pumps back to Fuelab and after testing was sent a new one in October.
Everything back to normal at WOT on E85.

Start of December ran the car down to 1/8 tank and switched to 93. Bad pressure drop again at WOT (30psi vs the 80-85psi it's setup to run at WOT). Again both pumps are running fine individually but both can't keep up at WOT on even 93 now.

I'll be returning them to Fuelab. Doesn't matter whether I get a refund or replacement, don't plan to run them again.
The Walbro pumps I've used with the Radium bucket over the past three years in this car and my previous one have never had a failure (knock on wood).

Partial pump failure from a multi-pump setup is likely the worst kinda failure to have, won't show itself at all until go time.
I'm adding an adjustable fuel pressure switch that triggers a small led light in my field of vision at WOT.
The light stays off all the time and only comes on at WOT with pressure over my set point. With a quick glance if the light isn't on at WOT I know there's an issue.

 

[engineermike]

@NGOT8R you failed a fuel pump, an FPDM, and a fuel line. Either you have the worst luck in the world regarding fuel systems or there is some over-arching root cause contributing to all of these failures. I can say there is 1, possibly 2 high pressure relief valves in the fuel system, not to mention factory feedback fuel pressure control that should keep fuel pressure within stock spec. The JMS BAP is specifically designed to limit amperage in the stock FPDM and wiring to acceptable values.

Also, regarding using the DW810 in a deadhead setup, I don't believe this is possible since the DW810 is only offered with the 2-speed brushless controller rather than the continuously variable type.

 

[engineermike]

...Partial pump failure from a multi-pump setup is likely the worst kinda failure to have, won't show itself at all until go time...

This x 1000. Or pump failures in staged setups as well. It's all about diagnostics and hidden failures. At least the twin pump setups from Ford have independent electronic diagnostics. This is why I'm a proponent of single pumps when possible...no fuel is better than not-enough fuel.

 

[NGOT8R]

@NGOT8R you failed a fuel pump, an FPDM, and a fuel line. Either you have the worst luck in the world regarding fuel systems or there is some over-arching root cause contributing to all of these failures. I can say there is 1, possibly 2 high pressure relief valves in the fuel system, not to mention factory feedback fuel pressure control that should keep fuel pressure within stock spec. The JMS BAP is specifically designed to limit amperage in the stock FPDM and wiring to acceptable values.

Also, regarding using the DW810 in a deadhead setup, I don't believe this is possible since the DW810 is only offered with the 2-speed brushless controller rather than the continuously variable type.

Two for three of those issues hold true. The FPDM turned out to not be bad. It was the JMS BAP that caused the issue (the two Hobbs switch wires touched and caused a short in the wiring and burned up the power wires). I repaired the BAP wiring and applied heat shrink to the ring terminals on the Hobbs switch wires and problem solved! The JMS is a killer setup. I like it a lot and it has served me well.

 

[cbrtrx]

I dont see why you couldn't run the dw810 with the radium bucket with the built in regulator. It will just bleed everything back into the basket. Use it as intended with the 2 speed controller. It would be simular to how the stock setup works.

 

[engineermike]

@cbrtrx thats a good idea. And the low-speed setting would reduce heat generation at cruise and idle. Very simple and capable setup.

 

[NGOT8R]

Many ways to get things done. For a while, Fore was and is still considered widely by many. I believe that system requires lots of fuel in the tank at all times.

 

[Cordero1]

@cbrtrx thats a good idea. And the low-speed setting would reduce heat generation at cruise and idle. Very simple and capable setup.

Did you ever go through with putting together a kit like you had mentioned previously in other posts? I want to keep my set up simple & the DW400 with bap (with upgraded power wire) would be a very affordable capable solution if tuners would accept tuning this set up.

 

[Timbuck]

I dont see why you couldn't run the dw810 with the radium bucket with the built in regulator. It will just bleed everything back into the basket. Use it as intended with the 2 speed controller. It would be simular to how the stock setup works.

yep 100% This is the best simple set up. Similar to my post #30 but Micheal has his regulator in engine bay.

 

[engineermike]

Did you ever go through with putting together a kit like you had mentioned previously in other posts?

What are you referring to?

 

[Cordero1]

What are you referring to?

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/fuel-system.189272/post-3806244

My apologies, I was jumping from window to window & did not look at dates. I was reading this thread & referring to post #22

 

[engineermike]

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/fuel-system.189272/post-3806244

My apologies, I was jumping from window to window & did not look at dates. I was reading this thread & referring to post #22

I *think* that was referring to using a GT500 bucket and line, with a pair of stock FPDMs and potentially even a pair of 18v baps, and the diagnostics integrated. But a couple of things were learned since then, like the actual capability of the bap/DW400. I also think I could run the GT500 twin pumps off a single FPDM as long as pump voltage is limited to around 12.5v in the tune. I bought all the stuff but haven't found the limit of my DW400/bap yet so no need.

 

[Cordero1]

I *think* that was referring to using a GT500 bucket and line, with a pair of stock FPDMs and potentially even a pair of 18v baps, and the diagnostics integrated. But a couple of things were learned since then, like the actual capability of the bap/DW400. I also think I could run the GT500 twin pumps off a single FPDM as long as pump voltage is limited to around 12.5v in the tune. I bought all the stuff but haven't found the limit of my DW400/bap yet so no need.

Oh ok I see.

 

[LOL WUT]

Did you ever go through with putting together a kit like you had mentioned previously in other posts? I want to keep my set up simple & the DW400 with bap (with upgraded power wire) would be a very affordable capable solution if tuners would accept tuning this set up.

Honestly, most tuners wouldn’t know if you had this setup or a dual pump return setup. If the injector data is correct, and the pump can keep up, I believe the logs will reflect that you’re good and the tuner is none the wiser.

My tuner has no idea what pumps or size lines I have. Just that I’m on a full return system with FIC 1000s.

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