New 2020 GT350 HEP engine failure

[honeybadger]

Good pics - nice they have it covered up some and are letting you check it out.

@honeybadger Check out the missing followers - wonder if they popped those out or they came out?

I’ve chatted with another member through DMs that had the follows fail and snap the secondary chain. It does seem like Ford is hunting down this problem. Definitely new for 2020. The 2016-2020 issues were mostly around the cylinder bores/rings. Really sucks.

Is the entirety of the VCT range 'safe' for operation at all RPM ranges? Or are only certain combinations legal, such that illegal ones run a high risk of mechanical interference?

And it’s safe assuming it’s operating within the OEM range +/- 4 degrees from my understanding. I’ve had them both full retard/full advance on me at separate times.

Also, this is why locking out the VCT is okay. You lose the adjustablinty of timing (and therefore power), but the engine is perfectly safe within those operating ranges assuming the rest of the stuff is good (including tune).

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[Inthehighdesert]

You can obviously back that up, right.

Your search is missing some, mine for example. If you consider how many 2020 were made and that they are all the same root cause, and figure maybe 20-30% get on the forums and talk about it. Its a pretty widespread issue amongst the 2020 cars.

 

[stanglife]

Your search is missing some, mine for example. If you consider how many 2020 were made and that they are all the same root cause, and figure maybe 20-30% get on the forums and talk about it. Its a pretty widespread issue amongst the 2020 cars.

You can obviously back that up, right.

No, he can not. We can only guess that not all instances are reported. I think it’s also reasonable to say that a higher percentage of 350 failures are reported on the forums compared to a Toyota due to the fact that most of these are bought by enthusiasts and at this price, it makes sense that we are a vocal bunch. What that percentage is, would also be a guess.

@mk1spyder Now start collecting build dates and then we are starting to get some actual data. Of course, the build dates of the actual engines and the individual parts inside of them would be ideal but I’m not sure how to determine that.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

That was aimed at the poster MK.. Looks like his posts are gone now.

You can obviously back that up, right.

 

[stanglife]

That was aimed at the poster MK.. Looks like his posts are gone now.

I see his posts.

 

[mk1spyder]

No, he can not. We can only guess that not all instances are reported. I think it’s also reasonable to say that a higher percentage of 350 failures are reported on the forums compared to a Toyota due to the fact that most of these are bought by enthusiasts and at this price, it makes sense that we are a vocal bunch. What that percentage is, would also be a guess.

@mk1spyder Now start collecting build dates and then we are starting to get some actual data. Of course, the build dates of the actual engines and the individual parts inside of them would be ideal but I’m not sure how to determine that.

Ok so go on another $80k sports car forum and show me where the front pages have multiple threads about the same exact kind of engine failures on the same year car.

If you think all of the old muscle car collector dudes that bought some of these thought hey I'm going right to the mustang 6g forums when theirs blew up you're crazy.

Where there is smoke there is fire. More and more it looks like the secondary chain is the culprit. Why I have no idea but it is way more common than it should be on the 2020's. Considering the GT500 have the same issue it must have been either a parts change to save $$$ or a faulty batch. Maybe they switched suppliers?

Would be interesting to see if the part# changed in the catalog......

 

[Inthehighdesert]

So I guess an admin is censoring content. Nice.

ps. That’s sarcasm if it escapes the admin that’s doing it.

I see his posts.

 

[stanglife]

Ok so go on another $80k sports car forum and show me where the front pages have multiple threads about the same exact kind of engine failures on the same year car.

If you think all of the old muscle car collector dudes that bought some of these thought hey I'm going right to the mustang 6g forums when theirs blew up you're crazy.

Where there is smoke there is fire. More and more it looks like the secondary chain is the culprit. Why I have no idea but it is way more common than it should be on the 2020's. Considering the GT500 have the same issue it must have been either a parts change to save $$$ or a faulty batch. Maybe they switched suppliers?

Would be interesting to see if the part# changed in the catalog......

Wow.
Is your entire view of the scope of this issue really based on a few threads that we are all talking in, and a wild ass guess about who uses the internet? Do you realize that most of the 7 listed above posted here for the first time (and some the only time) when they had a problem - including YOU?

Just goes to show what happens when you offer up some logic to someone who has already reached their peak intelligence.

Everyone else - Even though Mk1 has done all of this awesome discovery already, can we get build dates for the last few cars on the list? It’s apparent from the first 4 that they were early builds but the last couple were recent purchases. @mroad ??

 

[Nfs1000f]

I am so thankful that I bought my 2017 well before this forum became an engine failure forum. If I had waited, I would not have bought my car which would’ve been very unfortunate. After three years of ownership I still feel the same excitement I did the first time I sat in it. I’m sure there have been many potential buyers of our cars who have come here first to learn about the GT350 and ultimately decided against buying one after reading engine failure thread after engine failure thread. I feel badly for those who have lost their engines, but it has become tiresome rehashing basically a 4 year old thread over and over. Below are some of the topics contained in nearly every engine failure thread...
- We will never know the exact
percentages of engine failures. (In my
opinion, they are much
lower then what the alarmists claim.
And no, I have no facts to back up my
opinion)
- In most cases we will not know the
exact cause of the engine failure
because Ford will not announce it.
- No, your new engine will not have a
matching Vin.
- The car’s resale value will take a hit.
- These cars will not become collector
items in most of our lifetimes, so a
replacement engine
doesn’t really matter assuming you
bought your car to drive.

 

[GreenS550]

Everybody has an opinion. As a frequent buyer of Mustangs ( I have had 8 in the last 10 years only 1 brand new), here is my take on it.

The carfax will hurt resale value now. But after a few years and many miles, it will show that the engine replaced at this early date was a long time ago and no issues. So, the value will start to settle down near one which was not replaced. Most used buyers will see that it wasn't you, the owner that blew it up but a factor defect.

I my opinion, the reason Ford quit making the VooDoo is because it was expensive to make and the Coyote had many years to evolve as a fairly decent, cheaper, better known replacement. Note that the heads on the newer Coyotes flow really good. Had Ford put forged pistons in the coyote and a few other goodies, it could easily rev to 8,250 smoothly as many of us have had supercharged Coyotes do that an make 200-300 more HP fairly safely over the VooDoo.

OP, if you keep your GT350, it won't loose that much value in time. I agree with the others that this was an anomaly and likely Ford went over the replacement engine with a fine toothed comb. Maybe better than normal VooDoo engine.

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

let's assume that all 7 are the entirety of the observation pool. Of the M6G membership let's say maybe 200 persons are 2020 GT350 owners. Is that fair?

That's a 3.5% failure rate. If Coyote3 were failing at just 0.35% (1/10 as frequent) and assuming 65% of M6g forum members drive GT we'd have 0.0035 * 30,000 = 105 threads about infant mortality Coyote3 "new" off the show room floor. But that includes all 2015-2020 cars so let's just arbitrarily divide by 6 to make it represent a single MY. That would be 17 cases among just forum members. Have there even been 5 such threads? Or even 20 threads if we look at all years 2015-current?

Hell the units of Coyote3 on F150 positively dwarf Mustang so you'd think there would be a huge cacophony of pissed off truck buyers swarming those forums.

Yes self-selection bias is a real thing but even if this napkin math is off it still suggests Ford has a serious problem with their Voodoo engines be it design, manufacturing, or QC that can't be papered over by "everyone has shitty engines".

A better way would be to use the GT350 VIN Spreadsheet and get a total count of the GT350s that have a chassis number. The chassis numbers were all manually entered, meaning that someone had to contact the editor and give him their number. So those numbers are members of this website or know members personally. I doubt any of those people had their engine failed without somebody knowing. It's the only way to get a real headcount.

The spreadsheet is for 2020 models so it would be relevant. For the Heritage Editions there only has been 2 reported failures out of the 810 HEPs (I'm estimating, there were ~530 GT350s and ~280 GT350Rs). The Heritage Edition is a limited vehicle and I highly doubt someone buys one and does not use the internet. So for the HEPs the failure rate is less than 1% which is pretty good imo

 

[mroad]

When a class action lawsuit is filed (we only need 20 participants to start and it will grow from there), we can subpoena Ford's GT350 engine failure and replacement records. Then we will know the true picture and magnitude of the problem. Ford was subpoenaed records for the Focus and Fiesta transmission issues. A whole engine failure and replacement on expensive new cars is much more severe than transmission issues.

https://www.autonews.com/regulation...cus-fiesta-transmission-documents-report-says

 

[johnny1]

When a class action lawsuit is filed (we only need 20 participants to start and it will grow from there), we can subpoena Ford's GT350 engine failure and replacement records. Then we will know the true picture and magnitude of the problem. Ford was subpoenaed records for the Focus and Fiesta transmission issues. A whole engine failure and replacement on expensive new cars is much more severe than transmission issues.

https://www.autonews.com/regulation...cus-fiesta-transmission-documents-report-says

And in more class action lawsuits more than not the lawyers get most of the money and a small amount trickles down to to the consumer.

 

[mroad]

And in more class action lawsuits more than not the lawyers get most of the money and a small amount trickles down to to the consumer.

In the Fiesta and Focus class action lawsuit, Ford was forced to buy back the cars, not bad!

 

[GreenS550]

And in more class action lawsuits more than not the lawyers get most of the money and a small amount trickles down to to the consumer.

As a financial planner I despised class action lawsuits. I dealt with over a 100 of them in my career. This statement above is exactly correct. It is a massive tax to the company which in turn means they have to charge more for the product. And, since ALL companies are class actioned, they all charge more for their product.

Here is how it goes: A subpoena is sent to the company to get a list of the customers. The customers are mailed and maybe called on the phone by the law firm. They have their grunts do this of course making 10$ or so an hour. Many of these folks contact their financial planner on what to do. The individual, client, or broker spends lots of time putting together the requested information that the firm requires to be "condidered". As long as they get enough folks to participate, the firm determines the course of action. Usually the threat gets the company to "settle". The company does this because they are deathly afraid that a jury might award millions and millions. It is basically extortion.

So, many folks will say "they have it coming". No, YOU have it coming because the law firm gets all expenses paid FIRST. You are the hamster on the wheel thinking you will get "justice". All the mailings, calls, Starbucks latte, etc. THEN they get a min of 1/3 and then you might get 1 or 2 cents on the dollar.

If you have an issue with a company deal with it gentlemanly, firmly, yourself. BTW the U.S. has more attorneys than ALL the other countries in the world combined. As a planner I had several for clients and most made less than the guy on the line making our Mustangs. Fact.

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