Sponsored

The "how to disable the data link to Ford" thread

Epiphany

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Threads
69
Messages
7,460
Reaction score
11,657
Location
Global
Vehicle(s)
I like to disassemble things.
The Telematics Control Unit module can be seen here in orange in the following diagram which depicts the vehicle's various control modules. It operates on the High Speed Controller Area Network 4 (HS-CAN4) "at a maximum data transfer speed of 500 Kbps and is designed for real time audio, multimedia and driver information transfer and control."

TCU and network.JPG


There are probably a few ways to skin this cat with the issue being added complexity when seeking the most detailed method to "better manage" your choice to share or not share certain data sets (if at all). Aside from fuse pulling or antenna blocking/removal, etc, there is likely a way to convince certain module addresses to join the cause of independence and freedom:).


This little gem I link below shows the module address responsible for it all going down, 754 in the TCU. IDS likely won't allow what I'm getting at but FORScan will. You just have to know what is happening at each address and how to get it to work (or not) for you.

TCU module address 754 chart.jpg



The above says there aren't any "available program parameters" but if you understand how this works you know this isn't always true. It just takes a lot of time and testing. And FORScan.

Programmable Parameters.JPG



The following is a screen shot from a comparator tool I use that allows taking a close look at the as built files that were "assigned" to a given vehicle, in this case, mine. The column to the left shows the 754 (TCU) module address, along with relevant data sets and binary code. Those that did the calibration work have all the information that would make this a potentially very simple task (come out, come out, wherever you are!) but thanks to corporate policy and lawyers that would likely never happen. Note that I can scroll down much further as the 754 address goes all the way down to 754-18. Longshot, but there may be something to be uncovered here. I may contact a gentleman that writes as-built files to see how familiar he is in this particular area. He wrote me a file removing the annoying "double-horn honk" a while back when nobody else knew how to do it with the '20 S550 variants.

left2 comparator.JPG
Sponsored

 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Tomster

Tomster

Beware of idiots
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Threads
278
Messages
15,510
Reaction score
15,582
Location
FL
First Name
Tom
Vehicle(s)
'20 RR GT500R(CFTP), 18 OW GT350R Base, '17 AG GT350R Electronics Pack, '97 PG Cobra Convertible
The Telematics Control Unit module can be seen here in orange in the following diagram which depicts the vehicle's various control module. It operates on the High Speed Controller Network 4 (HS-CAN4) "at a maximum data transfer speed of 500 Kbps and is designed for real time audio, multimedia and driver information transfer and control."

TCU and network.JPG


There are probably a few ways to skin this cat with the issue being added complexity when seeking the most detailed method to "better manage" your choice to share or not share certain data sets (if at all). Aside from fuse pulling or antenna blocking/removal, etc, there is likely a way to convince certain module addresses to join the cause of independence and freedom:).


This little gem I link below shows the module address responsible for it all going down, 754 in the TCU. IDS likely won't allow what I'm getting at but FORScan will. You just have to know what is happening at each address and how to get it to work (or not) for you.

TCU module address 754 chart.jpg



The above says there aren't any "available program parameters" but if you understand how this works you know this isn't always true. It just takes a lot of time and testing. And FORScan.

Programmable Parameters.JPG



The following is a screen shot from a comparator tool I use that allows taking a close look at the as built files that were "assigned" to a given vehicle, in this case, mine. The column to the left shows the 754 (TCU) module address, along with relevant data sets and binary code. Those that did the calibration work have all the information that would make this a potentially very simple task (come out, come out, wherever you are!) but thanks to corporate policy and lawyers that would likely never happen. Note that I can scroll down much further as the 754 address goes all the way down to 754-18. Longshot, but there may be something to be uncovered here. I may contact a gentleman that writes as-built files to see how familiar he is in this particular area. He wrote me a file removing the annoying "double-horn honk" a while back when nobody else knew how to do it with the '20 S550 variants.

left2 comparator.JPG
Thats funny Tob....

I was just researching the same thing. I found essentially the same information. The APIM is the common bus that delivers data via the HS4-CAN to the TCU. The way I see it is that either depower the TCU or sever the link to the APIM. No more connectivity. However someone asked if the car can use other data data connection means....

I think this is plausible. Notice the APIM has bluetooth connectivity. It would not be a stretch IMHO if the APIM could utilize a bluetooth link to an alternate cellular modem (your cell phone) to link to the Ford servers.

Wifi is out the window IMHO, because it appears the wifi transmitter is part of the TCU. Sever the link or kill the power and that should be the end of data connectivity.

Screenshot (357).png
 

Epiphany

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Threads
69
Messages
7,460
Reaction score
11,657
Location
Global
Vehicle(s)
I like to disassemble things.
I just want to see if there is a way to avoid a "brute force" solution that involves severing a connection to a given module. If you look at the chart in the service manual in section 418-00 (under Group 18 Electrical Distribution) and scroll down to the "communications message chart" you can quickly see how many systems messages are tied into the TCU module. I'd just want to be certain that the only thing you are doing is denying the data from being sent that you want to go no further than the vehicle's own physical network.
 

drummerboy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2019
Threads
21
Messages
475
Reaction score
408
Location
SoCal
Vehicle(s)
'19 GT350
I just want to see if there is a way to avoid a "brute force" solution that involves severing a connection to a given module.
Right, but it's just a modem, isn't it? What else does it do? Why not pull the fuse and sever it? A car doesn't require internet access.
 
OP
OP
Tomster

Tomster

Beware of idiots
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Threads
278
Messages
15,510
Reaction score
15,582
Location
FL
First Name
Tom
Vehicle(s)
'20 RR GT500R(CFTP), 18 OW GT350R Base, '17 AG GT350R Electronics Pack, '97 PG Cobra Convertible
I just want to see if there is a way to avoid a "brute force" solution that involves severing a connection to a given module. If you look at the chart in the service manual in section 418-00 (under Group 18 Electrical Distribution) and scroll down to the "communications message chart" you can quickly see how many systems messages are tied into the TCU module. I'd just want to be certain that the only thing you are doing is denying the data from being sent that you want to go no further than the vehicle's own physical network.
Right, but it's just a modem, isn't it? What else does it do? Why not pull the fuse and sever it? A car doesn't require internet access.
You have to understand Tob.... I get it. He is Mr Forscan and if there is a way to tell the modem to shut up, then Im all for it. I don't have the time or the patience with all that is going on in my life to reverse engineer a communications protocol, and instruct other modules to ignore others. To me the simple solution is to kill the TCU. Have you had any error messages? Do you have any pending codes?
 
Last edited:

Sponsored

Epiphany

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Threads
69
Messages
7,460
Reaction score
11,657
Location
Global
Vehicle(s)
I like to disassemble things.
No errors, no codes. I have been complying with the thinly veiled data thievery going on while quietly looking for safe, and efficient solutions.

Anyway, note how this starts under the guise of safety...better service...and a happier customer bullshit. Ever wonder why your UPS driver is running his/her ass off with little time to chat? Big Brother has trained them well via constant vehicle monitoring. Watch this one closely on Ford's fleet control software...

 

lenFeb

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Threads
30
Messages
952
Reaction score
843
Location
USofA
First Name
Len
Vehicle(s)
2019 Shelby GT350 #K0110
Do you have documentation to support this? If this is actually a real phenomenon, action can be taken. If you're just speculating, it's not even useful as anecdotal information. I base my actions on evidence, not hearsay.
I don't have any accidents or traffic violation/tickets. When I purchased my GT350 in 2019 I drove the car easy for the break-in period during 6 months policy period. Time for renewal, no increase in premium. Next 6 months, I start driving car spirited and more often. Now my policy is come for renewal with over $2K for 6 month. Again no accidents or tickets. Moreover, I've got good driver discount on my renewal policy. I called my insurance company ad asked to speak with manager. I had lengthy conversation with him. All he was saying that the policy went up due to my driving history. When I asked to explain all he was saying over and over again this is because of my driving history. No valid explanation why my policy increased by over $2K. What other evidence do you need.

Edit: I have other cars on my policy, one of them I drive very spirited and it doesn't have modem or WiFi. This car was on the same insurance policy for over decade. No premium ever increase on this car policy. It's only when I purchased my GT350 which has a modem the policy increased.
 

Bangarang

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Threads
4
Messages
302
Reaction score
391
Location
Missouri
Vehicle(s)
2020 Iconic Silver GT 500 (L0545), 2018 Ford Raptor, 2003 Honda Accord Coupe EX-V6 6-Speed
If my insurance is raised for no reason, I’ll know why, and will remove everything after finding a new insurance company. If Ford really is sending speed data to my insurance, I will be dropped immediately. :clap:
 

drummerboy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2019
Threads
21
Messages
475
Reaction score
408
Location
SoCal
Vehicle(s)
'19 GT350
To me the simple solution is to kill the TCU. Have you had any error messages? Do you have any pending codes?
Literally zero repercussions. Took her for a spin again this evening, no RF emitting. FordPass still hung up on data from days ago. I'd uninstall FordPass but I figure I'll keep it for a bit in case anyone needs me to test something.
 

drummerboy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2019
Threads
21
Messages
475
Reaction score
408
Location
SoCal
Vehicle(s)
'19 GT350
BTW, that modem has to be always on and listening in order for you to be able to remotely lock and unlock - no doubt this will also increase battery life.
 

Sponsored

The Chairman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2016
Threads
16
Messages
1,580
Reaction score
1,431
Location
South TX
Vehicle(s)
‘09 GT500KR & ‘16 GT350 Track Pack & ‘20 GT500 HP
I don't have any accidents or traffic violation/tickets. When I purchased my GT350 in 2019 I drove the car easy for the break-in period during 6 months policy period. Time for renewal, no increase in premium. Next 6 months, I start driving car spirited and more often. Now my policy is come for renewal with over $2K for 6 month. Again no accidents or tickets. Moreover, I've got good driver discount on my renewal policy. I called my insurance company ad asked to speak with manager. I had lengthy conversation with him. All he was saying that the policy went up due to my driving history. When I asked to explain all he was saying over and over again this is because of my driving history. No valid explanation why my policy increased by over $2K. What other evidence do you need.

Edit: I have other cars on my policy, one of them I drive very spirited and it doesn't have modem or WiFi. This car was on the same insurance policy for over decade. No premium ever increase on this car policy. It's only when I purchased my GT350 which has a modem the policy increased.
I initially had Hagerty Ins on my cars. Couple years ago, the liability tripled at renewal for no apparent reason. I called them and asked what happened. Their response was they now consider any car with over 500 HP to be a “Supercar” and increased rates accordingly. So I switched to Grundy. Nothing like that ever happened with them.
 

Rapid Red

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Threads
45
Messages
5,071
Reaction score
4,089
Location
Woodstock GA
First Name
Greg
Vehicle(s)
GT PP2 RaceRed Roush> Steeda> preformance
Vehicle Showcase
2
Rapid Red said:
And you're worried about data collection on a car, this is the hill you're choosing to die on? You've already LOST the battle/war.


1) You act like we think this is the be all end all to privacy concerns. I encourage you to read my OP in the GT350 sub, particularly the last paragraphs.
2) Some of us are tech savvy enough to be able to stop data collection in other areas as well.

And the rest of us, know better. I'm pointing out, that pretty much any electronic foot print. Leaves a trail back to the user. These computers store, collect and assemble electronic files on all.

Not going to argue with an ego, reality is reality .
 

kilobravo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Threads
74
Messages
7,959
Reaction score
7,158
Location
Corpus Christi, TX
Website
kilobravo.com
First Name
KB
Vehicle(s)
'16 CT6, '18 SD, '20 GT 500
I wonder if it utilizes your cell phone as a secondary communications device?
That was my immediate thought, Earl so I double checked, all but the cellular radio were disabled. It's gotta be something I'm doing, I'm the knucklhead in this equation but, I'm enough of a geek to know that the phone was not connected to the car in any way that I could see.
 

The Chairman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2016
Threads
16
Messages
1,580
Reaction score
1,431
Location
South TX
Vehicle(s)
‘09 GT500KR & ‘16 GT350 Track Pack & ‘20 GT500 HP
This looks like correlation vs causation. Without proof, you can only infer what is happening at the insurance company. An internal review of the vehicles they are insuring is far more likely. It's also very possible they raised your rates because of their own financials. They wouldn't tell you "because our 3rd quarter missed guidance by 3%, that's why we're squeezing more money out of you. They're a corporation, not your friend. They don't need shadowy secret driving data to raise rates. All they need to see is an expensive "luxury" item, and an owner who might eat the cost. Did you demand your old rate back? Did you threaten to leave after X years of loyalty? Or did you accept what they said, come to a conclusion that it must be Ford's fault, and continue paying them?
At that point in time, none of my cars had any smart devices. So no data could have been sent to anyone on those cars. Must have been a $$ decision.
Sponsored

 
 




Top