Whipple Starting Issues

[dltn761]

I'm having some weird starting issues after my Whipple/OPG install. After installing everything, I started up and realized that I messed up the timing. I was throwing a P0018 code, and decided to tear the engine apart again to ensure the timing was correct.

After going through the front cover and ensuring the timing was correct this time (went through the correct procedure and even have pictures to ensure all my timing marks were matched up), the engine ran fine.

Now the issue I am having is that it will start up, then struggle to keep an idle. It will bog down, try to keep catching itself and then will either get back to good RPMs or just die out. There are no codes and the timing is definitely correct now.

So my question is, could this be a tuning issue (running whipple's tune with the tomahawk flash tool)? Or could it maybe be that the engine is being starved of air during the startup? I'm open to all opinions, and would appreciate any and all help for this.

P.S. After the car is going, it runs like nothing I've ever driven before. This thing just gets up and goes. So it runs damn fine after it's started up.

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[Zeb8806]

I'm having some weird starting issues after my Whipple/OPG install. After installing everything, I started up and realized that I messed up the timing. I was throwing a P0018 code, and decided to tear the engine apart again to ensure the timing was correct.

After going through the front cover and ensuring the timing was correct this time (went through the correct procedure and even have pictures to ensure all my timing marks were matched up), the engine ran fine.

Now the issue I am having is that it will start up, then struggle to keep an idle. It will bog down, try to keep catching itself and then will either get back to good RPMs or just die out. There are no codes and the timing is definitely correct now.

So my question is, could this be a tuning issue (running whipple's tune with the tomahawk flash tool)? Or could it maybe be that the engine is being starved of air during the startup? I'm open to all opinions, and would appreciate any and all help for this.

P.S. After the car is going, it runs like nothing I've ever driven before. This thing just gets up and goes. So it runs damn fine after it's started up.

Email whipple, they will get back quickly. How many miles do you have so far? Have you checked for vacuum leaks? I had an o ring in The wrong location, caused the idle to hunt.

 

[dltn761]

Email whipple, they will get back quickly. How many miles do you have so far? Have you checked for vacuum leaks? I had an o ring in The wrong location, caused the idle to hunt.

Have about 50/75 miles since the full install. I haven't checked for a vacuum leak. Any advice on how to do that?

Which O ring did you have in the wrong location?

 

[LGSD]

Have you tried running a crank relearn with Whipple Tomohawk programmer, yet.

 

[AZ_whippleS550]

Have you tried running a crank relearn with Whipple Tomohawk programmer, yet.

this is a good place to start even if you did it the first time you would have had to do it again after doing the timing

 

[SheepDog]

Have about 50/75 miles since the full install. I haven't checked for a vacuum leak. Any advice on how to do that?

Which O ring did you have in the wrong location?

The first thing you can do to look for a vacuum leak is to look at live data with an OBD2 scan tool. Does the Tomahawk flash tool show live data? Anyway, LTFT should be as close to zero as possible, and STFT will constantly try and target 0. If STFT is positive, then the O2 sensors are seeing a lean condition and the PCM adds fuel. Anything more than +10% STFT is out of range. If you have a vacuum leak, your fuel trims will be positive, meaning the PCM is seeing too much air, and adding fuel to compensate. Conversely, if the Fuel trims are negative, the PCM is seeing a rich condition and pulling fuel from the mixture.

The old fashioned way is to start spraying carb cleaner in short bursts around all the piping after the MAF, around the bottom of the supercharger, injector O-rings etc, anywhere the engine could pull in Air after the MAF, and listen to the engine for a speed change. If there is a vacuum leak, it will suck the carb cleaner in and the engine's speed will increase and smooth out.

Scan the PCM for codes. even if the check engine light isn't on, there could be a code stored. Also, get a Lund or Palm beach Dyno tune.

 

[dltn761]

Looking into the crank relearn. I did it before, but I will do it again to see if it helps out the issue.

I've "Read DTCs" since the finishing of buttoning it up the second time and have not popped one code the whole time. Looking at the data log and didn't see LTFT or STFT. Might look into the standard data log over the whipple data log to see if I can see a lean condition.

I have heard Lund or PBD is the way to go. Worth the ~$1000 to get an upgrade and a better tune? I have had a touchy throttle on the first gear takeoff (but I chocked that up to learning how to handle all the new power).

 

[SheepDog]

You want to look at the fuel trims when the engine is idling, and is warmed up to look for vacuum leaks. If you have a vacuum leak that goes away once the engine is warm, you either have a tiny leak, or more likely a fuel delivery problem, or perhaps it is the tune. Iv'e heard the Whipple tune is pretty good, but getting a custom tune will always be better, and they will be able to pinpoint problems for you. Fuel trims during your logs are a totally different story.

 

[TX-Ripper]

If you have a mechanical problem an aftermarket tune will not fix it.

 

[dltn761]

Totally agree with you TX Ripper. Just not totally sure if it's a mechanical problem. My confusion comes in that it will struggle to start and get to a stable idle for a few seconds, then will hit idle and be perfect. Then will get down the road perfect too.

I will be doing the crank relearn today to see if that could help with the issue. I'll also be double checking all the connections (even though I am confident everything is where it's supposed to be). Then I emailed whipple and will be talking to them first thing tomorrow morning to see if I can get some help. Even if it's a data log and them looking to see if something is out of sorts or not.

 

[TX-Ripper]

The very first thing you should do is get the Tomahawk tool out and start a log with the key on and then start the engine so you can Record with the engine is doing win the problem occurs.

probably best to do this on a coldstart.

I wouldn’t waste your time thinking that a crank position relearn will fix your problem. It is for misfire accounts only and has nothing to do with your issue.

If you do log it feel free to PM me and I’ll take a look

 

[dltn761]

Now it started up just fine this morning (twice). I data logged during it just to see. TX-Ripper, I will send you those data logs and see if you see anything off. They're in Excel format.

 

[Tom@Lethal]

One thing I’ve seen with idling issues is a voltage issue with the throttle body. If the magnets are off and the voltage is wrong it will either struggle at idle or it will surge. Def something i would look into

 

[West TX GT]

I have this issue with my Edelbrock. Lund tuned. Dakota told me it is a ford thing at start-up to warm the O2 sensors quickly and there is nothing they can do about it. He says they chased the issue in their Whipple car to no avail. I believe my car is rich on cold start. It did not have the issue with the Edelbrock calibration. It is unfortunate because the rest of the tune is great.

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