Whipple Stage 2 Engine failure (2017)

[J17GT]

I ran the canned Whipple tune before I swapped a Tremec Magnum XL trans in my car. Data logging the whipple tune I saw 21* of timing running 93 fuel with some boostane.

After I installed the Magnum XL, I went to a custom tune. I never see more than 19* of timing on this custom tune.

I think the canned Whipple tune is more aggressive than people think.

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[ShadesOfBloo]

Thats a good point. Our “super” over here is E5 and our standard is E10. I will ask about whether that might be a thing.

I think it makes a lot of sense to get a custom tune, but I’m then far away from any Whipple support. Not that it’s helped this time anyway.

Yes, you might want to ask Whipple if they have a UK-specific tune that accounts for the E5 fuel.
Whether they do or not, I doubt you need Whipple support so much as someone reputable who has tuned supercharged Mustangs before.

What a tuning parameter does for one screw-type supercharger (e.g. cam timing) it should do for all of them, right?

For example, Steeda sells Whipple products and has an e-mail and phone number specific to the UK. Calling them might yield a physical address where you can go for service.

Motorsport And Performance sells superchargers and does dyno tuning up in Yorkshire.
https://www.motorsportandperformance.com/blogs/blog/yorkshire-s550-mustang-gt-remap
You're in Cambridge? They might be within a 3 hour drive from Cambridge (if I've input the address in Google Maps correctly).

...And this thread discusses other shops of note:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/uk-modification-tuner-shops.168135/

I think the canned Whipple tune is more aggressive than people think.

That might be part of the OP's issue
(though I won't claim any certainty. All I can do from here is try to ask the right questions. )

 

[wazslow]

If your going to run another stock shortblock hard on pump gas, you are likely to end up in the same situation you are now. Stock ring gaps with prolonged full throttle pulls on pumpgas is problematic in these cars.

 

[tdstuart]

I have rebuilt 2 engines and I guess ill chime in.

My guess would be detonation from the car going lean causing the piston to melt. The weird thing is that if I am looking at the picture correctly that would be your #7 piston which means the heat spot is next to the intake valves not the exhaust. Which is weird because I would think the intake valve wouldn't be super hot but maybe I am wrong. There could also be some carbon buildup on it which got hot enough to cause detonation.

Also if you are going to have a boosted car just gap the rings. Is the engine coming as a shortblock or longblock? If its coming as a shortblock it should only take a skilled tech an hour or so to pull the pistons and gap the top ring. If you like to track the car then it's going to be getting hot which means you are risking your piston rings.
Would you rather spend the money now or a new engine later?

Also, get some opg and cs while you are at it. Also ARP headstuds.

As far as the whipple reasoning... They are whipple and have much more knowledge than me but their explanation as far as the grill makes no sense. The grill should have no impact on the car's ability to run properly unless its blocking airflow. The car uses a maf sensor, the only thing it cares about is the air flowing through the air intake tube. So even if more or less air is coming through as long as the maf is reading it, it doesn't matter. This is why you can put on no tune required cai, as long as the maf diameter isn't changing and air flow isn't increased or decreased dramatically, it really doesn't care.

 

[J17GT]

Anyone know what the ring gaps are on the aluminator compared to a stock short block?

 

[tdstuart]

Anyone know what the ring gaps are on the aluminator compared to a stock short block?

I think it's the same. Could only find official specs for the N/A aluminator which is 0.18mm - 0.28mm (0.007" - 0.011")

https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/IS_M-6007-A50NAB_100121.PDF

 

[Andy13186]

I put 3 medical gloves ontop of my foster sound tube and zip tied them on just to make sure the thin film wouldnt break and suck extra air in from the cabin... I would probably not do this mod again although I havent had any problems caused by it so far for 2 years. Was there a hole in the thin film on the sound tube? That could cause it to go lean

 

[J17GT]

I think it's the same. Could only find official specs for the N/A aluminator which is 0.18mm - 0.28mm (0.007" - 0.011")

https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/IS_M-6007-A50NAB_100121.PDF

Thanks for that. I'll try to do some googling for the lower 9.5 compression aluminator to see if there is any difference.

 

[Cory S]

Another option would be just to put a Ford aluminator shortblock in the car and be on your way. That's the route I'll go if I ever end up in your situation. The aluminator will be fine unless you're really pushing big power.

Aluminator rings are also gapped at .009”.

 

[Cory S]

Anyone know what the ring gaps are on the aluminator compared to a stock short block?

.0085-.011”

 

[Cory S]

99/100 times, the common ring land failure is NOT from detonation. The knock strategy is VERY good on these Coyotes. Most ringland failures happen on gasoline well within acceptable spark advance windows.
When I say gasoline, I mean ANY gasoline. Pump, race gas etc.

 

[tdstuart]

99/100 times, the common ring land failure is NOT from detonation. The knock strategy is VERY good on these Coyotes. Most ringland failures happen on gasoline well within acceptable spark advance windows.
When I say gasoline, I mean ANY gasoline. Pump, race gas etc.

Piston looks melted, but not a great photo.

 

[tdstuart]

That picture will be either 1 or 6 I think, as those were the two cylinders that had the issue.

I was originally told it was a short block (and the price is £3k ish which with extra UK costs is short block pricing)

Will be #6 then you can tell by the piston direction and head gasket orientation.

And if it’s a shortblock they just have to take off the oil pan and pull the pistons out. It should take an hour or 2 for a good tech.

 

[Andy13186]

Is there a certain CHT where the rings get too expanded? I've hit 258 cht during some somewhat prolonged spirited driving in 95 degree weather with my boosted NA aluminator, no problems yet although I don't want to test it farther than around that temp. I'm on e50 so maybe that helps the cylinder temps? idk. Also are the aluminator pistons less prone to this breakage because they are forged?

OP do you know what your CHT's were?

I'm going to stay under 260 since I've hit that without problems on my setup/fuel. In the winter this should be easy I hope.

 

[ice445]

Is there a certain CHT where the rings get too expanded? I've hit 258 cht during some somewhat prolonged spirited driving in 95 degree weather with my boosted NA aluminator, no problems yet although I don't want to test it farther than around that temp. I'm on e50 so maybe that helps the cylinder temps? idk. Also are the aluminator pistons less prone to this breakage because they are forged?

OP do you know what your CHT's were?

I'm going to stay under 260 since I've hit that without problems on my setup/fuel. In the winter this should be easy I hope.

Whoa mama, lol. 258 is pushing it. Engine power derates substantially on stock cars at 240, and that's as high as o would personally allow it to get to.

Pushing close to 260 is just asking for damage.

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