Vibration between 50 & 70 mph

[speedfrk]

What I have bolded out of your reply is totally BAFFLING to me (as well as many others) as to WHY we are into the 2nd model year and this very well known concern does not have more internal notes than SEVEN and why is this issue NOT being addressed within Ford? Makes no sense.

That would go to show that the Ford Service Centers either need definitive training on how to report such customer concerns OR the internal systems that house the reports from various Dealers are not capturing the data.


I know you have replied a few times in the thread that your rear pinion flange was replaced and it fixed your driveline vibe (after you too had to deal w/ numerous mis-diagnosis attempts) - I just have this one question:

Why would a replacement rear pinion flange be ANY different than the same part used in the initial assembly or production of the car?

Does anyone know if the part available over the counter through Ford Parts has been revised in any way?

Is the new pinion flange only working because it's being installed properly as opposed to how the same part was installed on the production line?

That's what I'd like to know... I mean, if the part has not been revised and it's the same part whether used in production or able to be purchased over the counter - then SOMETHING isn't being done right w/ the installation of the part on the production line.

I'm pushing for a TSB to be created out of this entire thread - I've even told and emailed the same to the Case Worker who I've been dealing with - now whether my request is getting to someone higher up, who knows...

If anyone has internal emails to Mark Fields, Bill & Edsel Ford, IM me... I'm serious about getting through to them.

The 2 piece DS assembly is a fairly complicated part. They are balanced at the factory and someone said this includes the pinion flange- thus the indexing. I have no first hand knowledge if this is true, but if the flange has run out either on the diameter or on the face, it would probably cause a vibration. Any misalignment will cause a vibration on something spinning that fast. So, my guess is that the flanges might be in spec but on the edge and the DS might be in spec but on the edge and in the right combination it would create a problem. I had 1 DS that was clearly out of spec according to the engineer. They replaced it, did on car balancing and the vibration was still just as bad even though the DS was in spec. That was when I asked them to try the pinion flange, which fixed it. They said there was nothing obviously wrong with the flange or install but that was the part that fixed it. Other people have had a similar experience. Having worked as a Flight Test Engineer for a major helicopter manufacturer, I can tell you that a lot of this stuff is not intuitive. Without proper instrumentation, you are just chasing your tail. Even with good data, it still needs to be interpreted properly. The Ford equipment bolts an accelerometer to the passenger seat track to measure in cabin vibration levels and matches frequencies to know issues like DS, wheel, axle, etc. So, if you have someone who knows how to use it, they should be able to isolate the problem. In my case, they knew it was DS frequency but didn't think to check the pinion flange. Like I said, this stuff is not intuitive...

BTW, my complaint with the dealer/Ford was not their lack of effort, it was the lack of respect for my time. 8 trips to the dealer, picking up rental cars, etc. I lost several entire afternoons to this problem and I'm obviously still a little bitter about it

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[Chameleon]

I wish we had dealers in Virginia who know how to balance, or at least check the balance, on drive shafts.

VA tire and auto. Very good shop.

 

[GTP]

Tech's not returning the parts no Ford won't pay the claim if they don't. As a tech we tag all parts warranty manager either scraps it or send it back depending what factory says. You know this so why would you say tech is as fault for not sending part back

The techs I was referring to are in my company, and not Ford techs. How should I know about Ford part returns?

 

[347CobraII]

The techs I was referring to are in my company, and not Ford techs. How should I know about Ford part returns?

Nice question with question :frusty:. You said tech wasn't doing there job assuming ford techs why Ford doesn't know what's going on in the field and I asked how do you know that. Also you know warranty always specify send parts back or scrap them never this do what we want with them.

 

[Cobra Jet]

IMO - the two piece driveshaft was a mistake to use and put into production on ANY Mustang... The Mustang has had and successfully used a full length driveshaft for years - even under high horsepower extremes with never an issue.

If the new two piece design was to eliminate the NVH - guess what, it's not working. If the associated parts on either end of the driveshaft (trans flange or rear pinion flange) are causing issues - then the Engineering Team should visit the plant, take the parts right from the line and spec them against manufacturing tolerances and/or checking runout limitations to see exactly what's causing so many concerns amongst new owners.

If there's defective parts by design, then the manufacturer who was contracted to supply those parts should be in the loop as well so that any tolerance inefficiencies can be corrected. Also if there's an issue with how the driveshaft is being installed (not indexed properly) on the line, then that should be addressed as well.

I'd be willing to bet if they would take 10 random cars off the production line (both auto and manual trans versions) and drive then at sustained speeds of 55-65mph for about 30mins to 1hr that some or all would exhibit the same issues.

This is not rocket science.

Let's get some Ford Engineering input into this thread already!

Deysha, I appreciate your response and trust that you are elevating this to the Engineering Team - any updates?

 

[FordService]

Thank you, Deysha. I have also PM'd you.

Thanks, Jim05! I’ll get back to you as soon as possible.

IMO - the two piece driveshaft was a mistake to use and put into production on ANY Mustang... The Mustang has had and successfully used a full length driveshaft for years - even under high horsepower extremes with never an issue. ...

Deysha, I appreciate your response and trust that you are elevating this to the Engineering Team - any updates?

You’re welcome, Cobra Jet! Any updates, such as TSBs will be sent to your dealer.

Deysha

 

[ultimate warrior]

It is present on my car but subtle, feels like ive switched from smooth pavement to concrete with rutted patterns.

16 EB auto

 

[shahram72]

I just got my V6 Automatic and it has this issue. I really hope they can fix it. I don't understand why it's still an issue in the second model year. My wife's new CRV also has vibration issues. It's like they can't build smooth cars anymore. I am taking it to the dealer on Thursday for this and other minor things, but they are so far from my house and I'm a UPS driver. I'm on vacation this week but I can't skip work to take a car in multiple times. This thread is really long I can't read the whole thing, but I read the first few and last few pages. So do I understand correctly that the problem is the rear pinion flange and/or the DS? IS there a TSB on this or not? And should I PM the rep on here with my info? What will that do at this point. I don't want to penalize the dealer in some way by doing this. I'm sure they're going to try to fix it as I still have not done the survey.

I hope I don't insult anyone here by saying this, but I am thinking that all Mustangs do this to some degree but many Mustang owners don't notice. Maybe they're used to unrefined cars? It was the vastly improved design and refinement of the 6G that brought me to actually buy a Mustang, maybe I was wrong? Still love the car... Just think this should be fixed, even if I have to get it done myself.

 

[GT Pony]

IS there a TSB on this or not?

No TSB as of yet.

I hope I don't insult anyone here by saying this, but I am thinking that all Mustangs do this to some degree but many Mustang owners don't notice. Maybe they're used to unrefined cars?

I've driven my GT to over 100 MPH on new smooth black top, and it was smooth as glass. So not all of them have this vibration problem.

 

[347CobraII]

I just got my V6 Automatic and it has this issue. I really hope they can fix it. I don't understand why it's still an issue in the second model year. My wife's new CRV also has vibration issues. It's like they can't build smooth cars anymore. I am taking it to the dealer on Thursday for this and other minor things, but they are so far from my house and I'm a UPS driver. I'm on vacation this week but I can't skip work to take a car in multiple times. This thread is really long I can't read the whole thing, but I read the first few and last few pages. So do I understand correctly that the problem is the rear pinion flange and/or the DS? IS there a TSB on this or not? And should I PM the rep on here with my info? What will that do at this point. I don't want to penalize the dealer in some way by doing this. I'm sure they're going to try to fix it as I still have not done the survey.

I hope I don't insult anyone here by saying this, but I am thinking that all Mustangs do this to some degree but many Mustang owners don't notice. Maybe they're used to unrefined cars? It was the vastly improved design and refinement of the 6G that brought me to actually buy a Mustang, maybe I was wrong? Still love the car... Just think this should be fixed, even if I have to get it done myself.

No right now it's just guessing on what is wrong.

 

[Cobra Jet]

I just got my V6 Automatic and it has this issue. I really hope they can fix it. I don't understand why it's still an issue in the second model year. My wife's new CRV also has vibration issues. It's like they can't build smooth cars anymore. I am taking it to the dealer on Thursday for this and other minor things, but they are so far from my house and I'm a UPS driver. I'm on vacation this week but I can't skip work to take a car in multiple times. This thread is really long I can't read the whole thing, but I read the first few and last few pages. So do I understand correctly that the problem is the rear pinion flange and/or the DS? IS there a TSB on this or not? And should I PM the rep on here with my info? What will that do at this point. I don't want to penalize the dealer in some way by doing this. I'm sure they're going to try to fix it as I still have not done the survey.

Cliffs Notes:
1) No, there's absolutely NO TSB in any of Fords systems regarding this topic. Why you may ask - good question, we would all like to know... its a HUGE mystery.

2) Resolutions for fixes have varied - there is not one definitive answer. For some reindexing the DS worked, new trans flange worked, new rear pinion flange worked or in some instances ALL 3 fixes combined worked... Or in worse case scenario, a complete rear swap out worked for 1 person on here in this very thread. Some also reported replacement half shafts...

3) PMing the Ford Service Rep your info:
This will get you an Internal Ford Customer Service Representative for your specific Region (State/County) and a Case Number. What it REALLY does, I have not figured it out yet - because I've been to my dealer 3x now with no resolution (yet). I don't even know if my Case Rep even contacted my Dealer, even though I was told they were going to discuss the matter with my Dealer (if that discussion has taken place, I'm not aware of it). In fact, I haven't heard from my Case Worker since my 2nd return visit which was back in January - and it took me 3 emails just to get a response from the Case Worker so that I could just get acknowledgment that she received my emails since I was not being contacted anymore! It's beyond me as to why I have to be the one calling Ford and giving status updates - you'd think it should be the other way around if the concern is about the Customer. So in a nutshell THAT is what PMing Ford Service on here will get you.

Hey that's ok, I requested some internal emails - not only did I get those on here, I also received more info than I requested - so not only will everything here get linked in my emails - but good old fashioned pen to paper with a stamp and send off to those same individuals at Ford HQ should create some fire under some folks.

Sorry, there's QC issues and folks paying $30K+ for a brand new Mustang should not have to go through circles and hoops to get proper resolution to such an issue. There also should be a TSB by now, more so 2nd model year into production with MY17 coming very soon.

It's great some of you didn't have any vibe issues - really it is, but guess what, I and others would like to be in that same category - instead of having to bring the car to the dealer multiple times for the same issue OR having to leave the car there for weeks on end until Service Center "X" can figure it out.


Deysha - any word from the Engineering Team??

 

[Enzo]

Hey guys I got my mustang back and the dealer said they had to re-index the driveshaft and so far so good. I have not had any vibrations and tried launching it quickly, high rpms and held em there, everything feels solid now. No more vibration. Hope this helps.out anyone else who has been having the issue.

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[theredmeadow]

Hey guys I got my mustang back and the dealer said they had to re-index the driveshaft and so far so good. I have not had any vibrations and tried launching it quickly, high rpms and held em there, everything feels solid now. No more vibration. Hope this helps.out anyone else who has been having the issue.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

I feel a slight hum in the car starting at 55-70. they balanced the tires and had to order a new tire because one wasn't balancing but the hum is still there. is this a symptom of what this thread is about?

 

[Enzo]

I feel a slight hum in the car starting at 55-70. they balanced the tires and had to order a new tire because one wasn't balancing but the hum is still there. is this a symptom of what this thread is about?

My symptoms were the hum, to be more detailed is sounded like a constant low bass sound, I a very fast but subtle vibration feeling on the steering wheel and the seat, after they indexed the drive shaft all.of that went away and everything felt smooth. The vibration would come on rite after a couple of minutes of driving.

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[Cobra Jet]

If you drive the vehicle at a sustained speed around 55-60mph - this is where the vibe is felt the most and is pronounced. If you can maintain that sustained speed for more than 25-40mins - you'll definitely know if you have the driveline vibe, because it will be present in that specific mph range. Going above 65mph it's still there and may start to taper off around 70mph but is still there just not as pronounced when at 55-60mph.

The KEY is - maintaining a sustained speed for some distance - not a 5-10 minute jaunt in stop/go traffic, not speeding up then slowing down, not driving up the road and back. To really determine the issue, the owner or Tech HAS to really drive the car for distance and maintain speed within 55-60mph.

If driving and gradually increasing speed up to 55-60 - an owner will definitely feel the vibe come on at the 55 or 60mph mark. Once maintaining mph within the specified range, not only will the vibe be present - but what others have said - you will hear a distinct hum or low rumble.

You have to have all accessories off - no HVAC, no radio and windows up. Listen to the car, if the vibe is as bad as mine (and as others have reported), you can definitely hear the NVH sound as the rotational mass is maintained at 55-60mph. You should also feel the vibe in the floor pan, gas pedal, steering wheel and trans tunnel while cruising at 55-60 for an extended drive.

Again - the key is extended drive time at a sustained speed. If not doing that, the car (to most who don't know a thing about NVH or driveline issues) won't be able to discern the difference between actual driveline vibes and common road imperfections.


---

My car is at the Ford Service Center again - dropped it off today for them to take the 4th attempt. This time they have the special vibe detecting equipment.

So my Cliffs:
1st initial visit to Ford Service Center: Attempted fix was rebalancing front tires.
2nd visit: Driveshaft re-indexed
3rd visit: DS removed and sent to independent shop because the FSC determined the driveshaft was out of balance.
4th visit: pending outcome



Is the Ford Engineering Team lurking and reading this thread? Any news yet if they are looking into the issue?

Oh and BTW - yes I know vehicles have been fixed via certain resolutions in this very thread - and yes, I did present my FSC with the exact notes from this very forum as well... So it's not like I didn't give them info to use for diagnosis and repair...

What's that - do I hear a TSB being created??

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