Unwarranted MT82 hate

[Nightmonkey]

A transmission is more concerned with the torque passing through it rather than how big it is what's attached to it.
...

My point is about drivability, you can not compare this on the basis of just a few key technical data!
A diesel has a much smaller usable rpm range, it simply runs out of breath despite the torque.
Of course, the gearbox has to be geared quite different.
Such a wide gear graduation would not work with a diesel because of the narrow usable speed range.
That's why I asked you to show me a European car with a comparable drive train configuration.
It doesn't exist these days!

The gradation of the gears is awful. They are way too tall after 2018.

It is not!
The engine simply has a wide usable rpm range, so the gradation of gears is a great fit.
You can drive the car just fine between the rpm with the highest torque (~4600 rpm) and the rpm with the highest power (~7000 rpm), if you want to go fast.
Most of the time, however, you're in the rev range below 3000 rpm, and still push the cars in front of you.

You have to remember what kind of car the Mustang is, the old-fashioned category name GT (= Granturismo) fits it very well.

Perhaps you also have to look at the intended use and their requirements.
For me it's a daily driver and for traveling.
I use it to go to the grocery store. I could do that in first gear if I didn't feel like shifting, and I would still run the risk of committing a speeding violation.
What other car offers that?
I'm happy with the configuration and wouldn't want a manual transmission e.g. with 7 gears like Porsche has, just to keep fuel economy from getting out of hand.

You have definitely made the right choice for you with the 10-speed automatic. For me, this thing would be too agitated.

PS: No question the Tremec gearbox is technically better, if I could choose, my choice would fall on it. But that's not because of its gear ratio.

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[NGOT8R]

While I know this wouldn’t be for everyone, but maybe it could benefit a drag racer. Has anyone ever heard of an MT82 with a 5th and 6th gear delete? I’m wondering if it would be as simple as removing 5th and 6th gears from the countershaft and machining the teeth off them (using a lathe), to where only the shaft collars remain and then press the collars back onto the countershaft? Does anyone have any insight or know where to find information on this?

 

[Mspider]

They are not.
Find me a modern European car with a engine that has this displacement and which can rev so high, then we can compare.

So because we do not have a exact comparison Ford gets a pass huh?

 

[PC_GUARD]

I think some of us who have been smashing gears in all incarnations of vehicles since the 80s, like the mt82 because it shifts so easy.

Take the old rock crushers, you had to muscle them and they loved it. The t5 is kind of in this category but theyd break. The t45 much like the t5 was another notchy arm strong pos.

Us older guys, (mid gen x ) all grew up driving manual trucks and cars, it was just the way of the world, and then it started to change.

I've had some guys on here give me a hard time that i'll double clutch at slow speeds/low revs, but its just good practice and allows you to drive anything. If Its more spirited, then its quick shift, and the mt82 loves it, remove the torque it just falls out of gear. NLS at 7800 while it can do it, and its all fine, you can have lockouts due to the high revs and torque, no transmission (OEM) likes to high rpms (7200+) nothing spins like the yote or the voodoo (in the US Market) even the s2000 that was the first high revving car to the masses, doesnt have enough torque or power for it to matter.

So what I'm saying in a round about way is, technique/driver mod is the biggest issue with the mt82, yes its a bit noisy, yes if you gorilla shift it like a boomer shifting a 68 Camaro you will break or bend shifting forks. If you approach shifting the car (as you have to with EU manuals) with finesse and not muscle it, its the smoothest easiest shifting car you will ever drive. I race guys in mexico, shifting with my finger tips. In my car (stock shifter no mods) it is manual transmission with easy button engaged.


With all the above said, I cannot comment on how it likes 500+ foot lbs of torque, or 1k HP etc

 

[luca1290]

So because we do not have a exact comparison Ford gets a pass huh?

Actually, there are two cars to compare: the Mach-1 and the GT350 with the TR-3160. .
Both have a functioning and proper manual gearbox.
The MT-82 was just made to cheap out.

 

[Nightmonkey]

@Mspider
There is certainly enough to complain about on the MT82, but if the gear ratios don't suit you, then you are simply not part of the target group.
That's what I'm just trying to say.

 

[luca1290]

@Mspider
There is certainly enough to complain about on the MT82, but if the gear ratios don't suit you, then you are simply not part of the target group.
That's what I'm just trying to say.

Let's try to see if I got your targeting correctly:

- GT with MT-82: Granturismo, the less I shift, the happier I am. I like cruising around and occasionally whipping her.
- GT with 10R80: Granturismo but for who likes a more involved / spirited driving.
- Mach-1 or GT350: Really performance oriented cars.

So, if you want to have real performance car, just go and don't buy a GT but a Mach-1 or GT350?

 

[Nightmonkey]

Actually, there are two cars to compare: the Mach-1 and the GT350 with the TR-3160. .
Both have a functioning and proper manual gearbox.
The MT-82 was just made to cheap out.

Stop!
It was you who claimed that there are European transmissions that are much better.
Mexico (where Tremec is based) is obviously not in Europe!
I am not aware of any European manufacturer using Tremec gearboxes in large-scale production.

That the Tremec is technically more sophisticated than the MT82, no one here has denied.
You also want us to believe that there is something wrong with the gearing of the MT82.
Let's take a look at both.

The information was prepared by someone from the German Mustang6 forum just for you.
https://mustang6.de/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=19236

*Attention, the axle ratio is different for the US spec than for the EU spec!

Oh and wonder of wonders, the transmission in the Sport Mustang is shorter geared.
Manufacturers have been doing this for decades to emphasize the sporty character of a model.
As you can also see, the MT82 never drops below maximum torque.

So, if you want to have real performance car, just go and don't buy a GT but a Mach-1 or GT350?

That would be my approach.
However, the GT also looks like a sports car compared to your Fiat Diesel.



For comparison:
US spec Mach1 axle ratio.

For conversion: 1 km/h = 0,62137 mph

 

[luca1290]

Stop!
It was you who claimed that there are European transmissions that are much better.
Mexico (where Tremec is based) is obviously not in Europe!
I am not aware of any European manufacturer using Tremec gearboxes in large-scale production.

Not a large scale production but the Lancia Delta 4S was making some 530HP for more than 450Nm of torque.... made in Italy by CIMA and the syncro were BorgWarner.
But yes, not a large scale production.
My point was that yes, you can do a better gearbox than what the MT-82 is (and it's probably not rocket science).

I know the different spacing of the gear is to enhance the sporty feeling of the car, and that is what (I think) the GT is. A sport car, that deserve "by default" a sportier gearbox.
I bought the 10R80 because I thought the MT-82 was not making justice to this car.

However, the GT also looks like a sports car compared to your Fiat Diesel.

Yes, for sure it is. FYI the Punto was my first car, that I bought with my own money. The A250 4Matic followed and now the GT as a good weekend car.

You have a little tendency to be sarcastic, sometimes crossing the limit.
We may disagree, but dissing the other is never a good approach (though I have my bad days..).

 

[Nightmonkey]

Lancia Delta 4S

Good old times, but different purpose / class of car.
But still a small displacement turbocharged engine, the thing must bang!
It has to drive differently than a large displacement V8, even though the Coyote is quite a rev hog.

You have a little tendency to be sarcastic, sometimes crossing the limit.

More cynical irony, but I think this is also due to the cultural difference and the language barrier.
After the German thinking (my twisted head), my translation into English, your translation into Italian, and what you think now, that creates a worse gear ratio than the MT82 can ever have.

I'm sweet, I just want to play!


Edit:
I can imagine that also plays a role in the consideration that I want to drive some times 125 mph at low rpm for a longer time. That is simply pleasant with a long gear ratio.

 

[AvalancheSVT]

@Mspider
There is certainly enough to complain about on the MT82, but if the gear ratios don't suit you, then you are simply not part of the target group.
That's what I'm just trying to say.

you're right about the target group thing, with 3.73's the gears seem just right. this thing screams all the way to 7500. i like it. i find myself short shifting cause i'm used to my cobra only revving to 6500.

 

[bryyce62]

I've missed 3rd at redline exactly 2 times. Both times, it was operator error. If I focus on a good 2-3 transition, I can hammer 3rd & get a chirp every single time.

I got no complaints on the MT-82. If I break it, It'll go to Calimer or I'll swap in Tremec.

 

[Nightmonkey]

So, if you want to have real performance car, just go and don't buy a GT but a Mach-1 or GT350?

That would be my approach.

By the way, this also applies to 10 speed AT!
Unlike the GT, the Mach1 does not reach its thermal limits when pushed hard, e.g. on the Nürburgring.

 

[luca1290]

By the way, this also applies to 10 speed AT!
Unlike the GT, the Mach1 does not reach its thermal limits when pushed hard, e.g. on the Nürburgring.

Yes! The 10R80 is probably the right compromise for what I am: maximum comfort in Normal Mode and more sporty when I feel to trash it.
And yes! The GT is not a proper sports car because it boils after a few laps...
By the way, I'm Italian, I scream shorter gearing, smaller displacement engines that you have to trash constantly if you want to ever move. Here's Fiat FIRE 1.1 "millecento" territory.
All the roads are short and twisty, without shorter gearing you will never enjoy it.

I still hate the MT-82 to the core after having drove it.
Disclaimer: the car was a heavily abused rental with 50.000Km.

When we make the manual vs auto hate tread?

 

[tosha]

With all the above said, I cannot comment on how it likes 500+ foot lbs of torque, or 1k HP etc

It's an awesome package along with 3.73 diff
Well, I don't have 1k HP, but I wouldn't want shorter gearing in my Roush supercharged one. Liked the gearing of my D4 when NA, love it with SC. Sure tremec seems to be a better transmission fr all the reviews, it's available on mustangs for those who are ok to pay the premium.

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