Throttle mapping: Sport+ vs. Track

[wynand32]

Yeah man you can over ride the exhaust mode once you put it in the drive mode you want.

Very good to know.

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[wynand32]

That’s what my mode is for

Aha, that makes sense. I'll have to dig into that the next time I take her out.

 

[loucas-2021]

I think there must be something wrong with my exhaust, because I can't say that track mode sounds louder than Sport+. I would go as far as saying that Sport+ sounds louder. Maybe I'm going deaf...

 

[C-WOODS-70]

Is throttle mapping the only thing that changes from one mode to another? Does any timing get added?

 

[Oakley]

Is throttle mapping the only thing that changes from one mode to another? Does any timing get added?

the tune doesn't change at all. this is purely about how quickly the throttle plate swings to 100% open. other than that its transmission, abs, and suspension tuning.

 

[First Stang]

I think there must be something wrong with my exhaust, because I can't say that track mode sounds louder than Sport+. I would go as far as saying that Sport+ sounds louder. Maybe I'm going deaf...

It can get difficult at times. The throttle mapping on the sport plus artificially "inflates" the throttle so it can sound louder at mid revs. Try both at higher revs. The track noise is glorious.

 

[Vlad Soare]

I have to wonder if it contributes to the number of people who send these cars flying into the ditch.

It might, though I have a hunch that what contributes even more to it is the ten-speed automatic.
With a manual gearbox, losing traction isn't much of an issue, because you lose it gradually and predictably. You just ease off the throttle and countersteer a bit, and you're fine. If the TC is on you don't even have to do that, because it will catch it before you do.
But with the A10, if you press the pedal just a tiny bit too hard and it downshifts three gears in a blink of an eye, then you can break traction very abruptly, and regaining it can be much more difficult. By the time you realize what happened you're already sideways. It can happen so quickly that even the TC and ESC have no time to react.

 

[Vlad Soare]

Speaking of the throttle response, there's something else that I find a little annoying.

I don't use the auto rev match. I want to do it myself. And I've come to a point where I can do it reliably most of the time.
The trouble is, the throttle doesn't respond as quickly and sharply as you'd expect.
When the ARM is on, it revs the engine instantly to the required rpm. But if I give the accelerator pedal a quick stab it won't react like that. All I get is a faint, lazy reaction that's anything but sufficient for a proper rev match. The revs barely raise by 500 rpm at best.

In order to match the revs correctly I need to press the pedal slower, in a more deliberate manner, rather than just giving it a quick stab. Which, of course, has the side effect that it's easy to overdo and to raise the revs too much - lots of attention and control are required to do it right.
This is most obvious when downshifting from third to second; that's when I need to be most careful. From third gear upwards it's a bit easier.

On the HPtuners forum nobody was able to explain this and to tell me if there's any table in the PCM that controls it. Why is the PCM able to rev the engine quickly when the auto rev match is on, but I'm not?

@engineermike, any thoughts on this? Any idea if I could make it react a bit faster?
Thanks.

 

[WD Pro]

I'm glad there's another sport+ guy ...

Judging by some of the comments, I was getting a little paranoid that there was something wrong with my car and / or my belief that I was actually driving the car smoothly whilst using that mode ...

WD

Note : sport+ is my default mode in my M6, its set as my mymode which I toggle too as I'm driving out of the street. Perhaps that's the difference when compared to driving in normal all the time, and then switching to sport+ and thinking WTF ... lol ?

 

[WD Pro]

Speaking of the throttle response, there's something else that I find a little annoying.

I don't use the auto rev match. I want to do it myself. And I've come to a point where I can do it reliably most of the time.
The trouble is, the throttle doesn't respond as quickly and sharply as you'd expect.
When the ARM is on, it revs the engine instantly to the required rpm. But if I give the accelerator pedal a quick stab it won't react like that. All I get is a faint, lazy reaction that's anything but sufficient for a proper rev match. The revs barely raise by 500 rpm at best.

In order to match the revs correctly I need to press the pedal slower, in a more deliberate manner, rather than just giving it a quick stab. Which, of course, has the side effect that it's easy to overdo and to raise the revs too much - lots of attention and control are required to do it right.
This is most obvious when downshifting from third to second; that's when I need to be most careful. From third gear upwards it's a bit easier.

On the HPtuners forum nobody was able to explain this and to tell me if there's any table in the PCM that controls it. Why is the PCM able to rev the engine quickly when the auto rev match is on, but I'm not?

@engineermike, any thoughts on this? Any idea how I could make it react a bit faster?
Thanks.

That's interesting, I wonder if for that particular scenario sport+ would be a bonus ? (But you have kind of got rid of that option by making all your modes linear)

WD

 

[Pistol_91]

I've always believe that the issues people point to with sport+ on a manual may be a bit overexaggerated. However I absolutely despise the idea of a fake snappy throttle that changes with drive modes.

The difference between normal and sport doesn't start until you get above 28% throttle input. So for starting from a stop and creeping around it shouldn't make a difference unless you are using a lot of throttle.

With that said, I remapped my sport mode to be entirely linear because its herky-jerky when you are in gear, and I think fake snappy throttle mapping is dumb and useless.

More importantly if we're trying to drive the car well and near its limits it's critical the the behavior of the car is predictable. When I'm driving my car every day I'm not just getting to work I'm learning how the throttle translates to power at the wheels. So then, I switch to Sport+ when I want to drive hard and now the throttle mapping is very aggressive and different from what I'm used to. We're combining an unfamiliar throttle response with reduced AdvanceTrac intervention, with hard driving, that feels like a recipe for disaster. I have to wonder if it contributes to the number of people who send these cars flying into the ditch. Anyway that's my rant against weird throttle mapping thank you for coming to my ted talk.

Couldn't agree more. Sport mode throttle map is terrible.

 

[Vlad Soare]

I'm glad there's another sport+ guy ...

Judging by some of the comments, I was getting a little paranoid that there was something wrong with my car and / or my belief that I was actually driving the car smoothly whilst using that mode ...

WD

Note : sport+ is my default mode in my M6, its set as my mymode which I toggle too as I'm driving out of the street. Perhaps that's the difference when compared to driving in normal all the time, and then switching to sport+ and thinking WTF ... lol ?

You can drive smoothly with any kind of throttle mapping (well, save for some extreme cases, like the rain & snow, which is plainly undriveable ). You just get used to it and adapt your technique.
But why adapt to something wrong, instead of making it right in the first place?

This reminds me of my first car, which was a Citroen CX. An absolute gem of a car, but the brake pedal had no travel at all. The braking force was determined not by how far down you pushed the pedal, but by how much force you exerted on it - the pedal itself barely moved, if at all. And it's not that mine was defective; that's actually how all CXs were.
You got used to it after a while, but a colleague of mine who drove that car said, "sure you do, eventually, but why would you want to get used to something that's broken"? I didn't know what to answer. He did have a point.
Granted, the Sport+ throttle mapping isn't really that bad. It's much easier to adapt to than those brakes were.

You do need good roads for the Sport+ mode, though. I love the Sport suspension when driving at high speeds on good roads. But in town, where our road workers use to look at a manhole cover that's three inches below street level and say, "yes, that looks perfect, we've done a good job", it's always Normal mode for me. If I could make the suspension five times softer than Normal, I would.

That's interesting, I wonder if for that particular scenario sport+ would be a bonus ? (But you have kind of got rid of that option by making all your modes linear)

That's a fair point. I don't remember it being easier in Sport+ back when I hadn't remapped it yet, but the truth is, I drive quite rarely in Sport+ anyway, so who knows, maybe it was a bit.
But I think this isn't necessarily about the relationship between pedal and throttle, but rather about how fast that relationship is implemented. You could have a mapping that says, "open the throttle 100% when the pedal is at 20%", and it still wouldn't help if that 100% were achieved a full second after pressing the pedal.

 

[loucas-2021]

I'm glad there's another sport+ guy ...

Judging by some of the comments, I was getting a little paranoid that there was something wrong with my car and / or my belief that I was actually driving the car smoothly whilst using that mode ...

WD

Note : sport+ is my default mode in my M6, its set as my mymode which I toggle too as I'm driving out of the street. Perhaps that's the difference when compared to driving in normal all the time, and then switching to sport+ and thinking WTF ... lol ?

WD, I think that makes 3 of us that prefer Sport+ to Track mapping (or whatever the accurate term is to describe the difference).

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