Throttle mapping: Sport+ vs. Track

[NHGTPP1]

I have a 2017 GT premium, PP1, 6 speed. It's a summer DD. For me normal mode with traction control off is pretty good.

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[5.0_Lojos]

sport mode sucks if you have a stick.

What if you have 373 gears and supercharged?

 

[shogun32]

What if you have 373 gears and supercharged?

You be kray kray.

 

[5.0_Lojos]

You be kray kray.

That would be me. You adapt, although 1st gear is useless. These cars a made for the "Roll"

 

[m3incorp]

I drove in that mode twice... both times had on the drag radials and got caught in a huge downpour. You are right, feels like somebody cut the testicles off. I guess that is what makes it a bit safer in the rain though.

Here's how the Rain/Snow mode looks:

It's absolutely awful. It feels like the car is broken.

 

[Rolls]

I drove in that mode twice... both times had on the drag radials and got caught in a huge downpour. You are right, feels like somebody cut the testicles off. I guess that is what makes it a bit safer in the rain though.

Lund offer a PCMTEC multitune with a timing ramp. This pulls timing out at low rpm to make the car make far less torque, you can then use the cruise control buttons to dial in from 0-100% "power". Where 0% is the lowest amount of timing and 100% is full timing/power.

https://lundracing.com/pcmtec-multi-tune-upgrade

Technically anyone can do this, however Lund already offer it as a proven combination that many people are using.

You can also do it via the throttle as you have done, I personally find ignition timing/cam timing is a much smoother way to make the car make less torque at low rpm. You can usually pull out 30%+ torque at low rpm via this method, in my opinion it feels less "doughy" than doing it via the throttle, it is also more predictable when using partial throttle.

You could also have different tune slots where it short shifts all the gears even at WOT, quite a few ways to skin the cat and make the car faster despite making less power as you don't have to manually pedal the car.

The different map slots persist on power cycle, so unlike the drive modes you can have fully customisable tunes without requiring a reflash.

At the end of the day, our MyMode is the most non customizable “custom” mode. All I want is to be able to have track suspension, with tc active, and lighter steering. But no, you can’t divorce the steering from suspension (except in normal because… logic) and you can’t have the firmest suspension without reducing TC below normal which I would argue is already too lax. My buddy is flabbergasted at how much the car lets slip before intervening. Maybe that’s just the PP2 additional tuning, I don’t know.

I believe a lot of the locked out combinations can be modified via tuning the vehicle, the traction control absolutely can be adjusted, however it is always going to be fairly slow to react due to how the ABS module works. Works great on lower power cars, but when you have an 800hp supercharged vehicle, it will likely not pull sufficient torque fast enough.

 

[ing3nious]

Works great on lower power cars, but when you have an 800hp supercharged vehicle, it will likely not pull sufficient torque fast enough.

This is my first American ride and from what I can tell, the nanny is perma-drunk and slow to react to slip compared to her Japanese and German counter parts

 

[NHGTPP1]

I have a 2017 GT premium, PP1, 6speed. what mode gives me 100% throttle and 100% torque from idle to red line ? Do I need a custom tune to get this ?

 

[Angrey]

This turned out to be an awesome thread. I haz a few questions for @Vlad Soare @ZXMustang @engineermike

As PCM pointed out, there's possibly more depth here than just the accelerator pedal position and the throttle profile. There's commanded, but do the different modes change the actual throttle blade profiles (i.e. the max range) or are they all scaled the same?

Second, after messing around with my new stand alone, with the car off, and the computer logging, the APPS was holding at 50% value (I have 0-5v scale, I know some people have a 12v range). Is that just for start up purposes or is the car holding 50% APPS voltage the entire time the car is off. Seems like a possible culprit for why/how modern mustangs are notorious for draining the battery when left without a tender. As soon as you touch the accelerator, it jumps to whatever the actual input is, but it goes back to 50% if you take your foot off the pedal. I asked the tuner and he wasn't sure of how/why that is...........is that an OE thing or something unique to the stand alone?

With the stand alone, you can not only change the APPS command scale/profile, but in each mode you can change the max amount of throttle travel for engine output control. Seems like PCM has a different set of timing scale added to it as well (for different drive mode inputs).

 

[engineermike]

@NHGTPP1 in all ford strategies they have the option to override torque demand and push the throttle wide open regardless of what the pedal translation and driver demand tables call for. In the ecoboost, this is generally disabled and it’s always controlling to a specified torque. In the coyotes, however, it’s generally programmed to start pushing the throttle open at 83% pedal and reach wot at 90%. As such, all drive modes will attain wot.

That said, you can disable the wot forcing and use drive modes to limit torque or even shape the torque curve however you want it. I made a novelty tune a couple of years ago that simulated the stock 5.0 torque curve and shift points in Drive and unleashed all the Whipple boost in sport mode. It was neat for a couple of days. I’m also nearly certain that you can activate torque-by-gear if traction is your concern.

@Angrey, by APPS are you referring to pedal position or throttle position?

 

[Angrey]

@NHGTPP1 in all ford strategies they have the option to override torque demand and push the throttle wide open regardless of what the pedal translation and driver demand tables call for. In the ecoboost, this is generally disabled and it’s always controlling to a specified torque. In the coyotes, however, it’s generally programmed to start pushing the throttle open at 83% pedal and reach wot at 90%. As such, all drive modes will attain wot.

That said, you can disable the wot forcing and use drive modes to limit torque or even shape the torque curve however you want it. I made a novelty tune a couple of years ago that simulated the stock 5.0 torque curve and shift points in Drive and unleashed all the Whipple boost in sport mode. It was neat for a couple of days. I’m also nearly certain that you can activate torque-by-gear if traction is your concern.

@Angrey, by APPS are you referring to pedal position or throttle position?

Accelerator Pedal Position (sensor). I was just curious if what your foot was commanding, then scaled by mode is actually what the PCM is allowing in the throttle by different modes. So regardless of the pedal ramp, is there a difference in what the throttle body is doing or allowing between the different modes?

I was curious to hear you thoughts on the whole 50% voltage stuff. Seemed weird to me (with the car off, it's reading sensor/log input of the APPS. Not sure if that's to "prime" it for start up or what the purpose of that would be. I was also curious if that would serve as one of the potential current draws on the battery system with the car off.

 

[engineermike]

The stock logic has a cranking throttle angle but it’s nowhere near 50%. The moment the engine fires the throttle angle starts controlling torque, and at that time transitions to “run up” torque source.

Torque control usually determines the throttle angle. In dbw controls, the throttle is considered to be more of a control valve that determines cylinder filling needed to reach a desired torque. It almost shouldn’t even be correlated to pedal position at all, in fact. I can explain this in detail if anyone is interested.

The only two cases I can think of where the throttle angle is directly related to pedal input is wot start/end as described earlier, and “pedal follower mode”. There is a table in the pcm to correlate throttle angle to pedal, but it only works if “pedal follower mode” is enabled and it is not in every tune I’ve seen…nor would you want it to be.

 

[Angrey]

The stock logic has a cranking throttle angle but it’s nowhere near 50%. The moment the engine fires the throttle angle starts controlling torque, and at that time transitions to “run up” torque source.

Torque control usually determines the throttle angle. In dbw controls, the throttle is considered to be more of a control valve that determines cylinder filling needed to reach a desired torque. It almost shouldn’t even be correlated to pedal position at all, in fact. I can explain this in detail if anyone is interested.

The only two cases I can think of where the throttle angle is directly related to pedal input is wot start/end as described earlier, and “pedal follower mode”. There is a table in the pcm to correlate throttle angle to pedal, but it only works if “pedal follower mode” is enabled and it is not in every tune I’ve seen…nor would you want it to be.

Except for initial tip in, I'm sure the motor is going to do whatever it CAN do, irrespective of the pedal input most of the time. You ask for all the beans now, the motor can't deliver all the beans instantly so it follows all the prescriptions to catch up to the driver's desire, but it isn't instantaneous or even at the pace the driver can stomp the pedal. In essence, the driver asks for a certain level of OUTPUT from the pedal, not necessarily an angle of the TB. (a mechanical analog would be a cabled system where the pedal actually controls the angle of the TB blade). In a drive by wire scenario, the driver isn't commanding the TB, but communicating to the computer the amount of sauce/output they want. (which is generally determined by torque output) is that the basis of it?

 

[ZXMustang]

So to follow up, in my 2022 with the 401a package and the 10R80, according to HP Tuners both tune files and the logs, Mud mode is TRACK and Sand mode is DRAG. This corresponds to both the driver demand pedal modes as well as the shift maps.

Track mode

Drag mode

 

[Rolls]

@NHGTPP1 in all ford strategies they have the option to override torque demand and push the throttle wide open regardless of what the pedal translation and driver demand tables call for. In the ecoboost, this is generally disabled and it’s always controlling to a specified torque. In the coyotes, however, it’s generally programmed to start pushing the throttle open at 83% pedal and reach wot at 90%. As such, all drive modes will attain wot.

That said, you can disable the wot forcing and use drive modes to limit torque or even shape the torque curve however you want it. I made a novelty tune a couple of years ago that simulated the stock 5.0 torque curve and shift points in Drive and unleashed all the Whipple boost in sport mode. It was neat for a couple of days. I’m also nearly certain that you can activate torque-by-gear if traction is your concern.

@Angrey, by APPS are you referring to pedal position or throttle position?

Just FYI for those reading. In all the 5.0s I've seen this enabled and that above I think 90% throttle it will go WOT and ignore the torque tables.

ID Name Value Stock Units Description
auF32869 Maximum pedal positon to enter WOP 90

Hysterisis is set to 85%, so it will stay at 100% until it drops below 85%

It will also disable the AC after 5 seconds when in the "WOP" state is my understanding.

ID Name Value Stock Units Description
auF20213 A/C EVDC WOT Protection Clip 5 5 Time limit when EVDC is under WOP clip.

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