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Question re Sport vs Sport + mode

rocky5517

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After 2 years you'd think I would have figured this out by now; I like flipping the toggle switch into "Sport +" and driving around. I don't often use the paddle shifters but I really like the way the car runs in that mode. Today I put the Shifter into "S" and I understand the difference between S and D, but I toggled up to Sport+ and didn't see a big difference between Sport + in D and Sport + in S. Am I missing something?
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Cobra Jet

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After 2 years you'd think I would have figured this out by now; I like flipping the toggle switch into "Sport +" and driving around. I don't often use the paddle shifters but I really like the way the car runs in that mode. Today I put the Shifter into "S" and I understand the difference between S and D, but I toggled up to Sport+ and didn't see a big difference between Sport + in D and Sport + in S. Am I missing something?
This may help...

There are differences between TRANS modes and DRIVE modes (see further below).

This is what I posted a while back for new 10R80 Owners, so found it and clipped it again for the purpose of this thread content.

—-

All the info anyone needs to know about paddle shifting AND the Trans Modes AND the Drive Modes (a little long, but complete):

The below applies to the 2018 10R80, but still applies to the 2019+ w/10R80:.

Drive Mode info (ie: as pertaining to only the Center Stack “MODE” switch”).

This is directly form the 2018 Owners Manual (and can be found in prior year Owners manuals):
3F081674-F267-4BA7-8A2A-C6DE95B83404.jpeg
A9CC9212-5B79-4AC7-A2CC-7FA899E0E493.jpeg


And this will help you too:


Here’s some helpful info for new 10R80 (A10) Owners that I had posted a few times on here:

[1] Trans selector in Normal (D) mode:
After initial vehicle start up, when the Trans is in (D) and without driver intervention of touching the paddles, the trans is going to auto shift based on what it has adapated from learning the Driver’s driving habits and Ford’s mapping. The trans will hold the gear long enough as preprogrammed from Ford’s mapping and will auto down/up shift as needed based on that mapping AND the adapted Driver’s habits. The transmission will select the BEST and most OPTIMUM gear needed - it does NOT always shift like 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 nor does it downshift through 10 consecutive gears.... it could go 1,3,5 or if downshifting, go 9,7,5.... you get the idea.

HOWEVER, if the driver intervenes while in (D) and clicks up/down with the paddles, the trans will hold the gear selected longer than the preprogrammed mode, but it will NOT redline and will auto shift out into the next gear IF the driver has not. The same is true for downshifting.


[2] Trans selector in Sport (S) mode, the Driver has (2) options:

A)
Touch the paddle and the trans is now controlled strictly by the Driver. This means if you click the paddle from a dead stop and start accelerating - the trans will NOT shift from 1 to 2 (or into any next gear) until the Driver makes the change manually. The car WILL hold the gear and WILL redline until the manual change is made by the driver. If the car was in motion and the Driver clicked a paddle (up or down), again, the trans WILL hold the current gear and CAN redline until the Driver makes the manual change.

B) If after vehicle start up, the Driver selected (S) initially and has NOT touched the paddles at all (and does NOT touch them while driving) - in (S) the car will hold out the gears much longer than if in (D); the trans WILL auto shift but will NOT hold the gear out to redline based on the preprogrammed mapping from Ford. IF while driving, the user moves the shifter from (D) to (S) and the Driver does NOT touch the paddles, again the trans will react exactly in the same manner where it’s following the preprogrammed mapping from Ford.


—————

The DRIVE MODE S+ is totally separate from the transmission selections. The S+ Drive Mode is triggered and activated only when the driver manually selects this mode using drive mode toggle switch in the center stack and it only changes:
1) Engine performance due to preprogrammed engine parameters.
2) Trans shift points

When in drive mode S+ with shifter in D, the car will still auto shift - even if the user has touched a paddle - if the user does not touch a paddle again, the car will still auto upshift (or downshift) itself.

The ONLY time the trans allows the vehicle to be in “full manual mode” is when the operator puts the shifter selector into “S”, regardless of what “drive mode” the operator has chosen from center stack for engine performance.

If the vehicle drive mode is S+ and the Trans selector is in S, once the operator touches a paddle to upshift or downshift (while driving OR from a standing stop) - the trans is taken out of its own “auto logic” and is now in complete manual mode - it will NOT upshift at all until the operator manually shifts via the paddles.

——

The above also applies to the 6R80 in the prior 2015-2017’s, with the obvious difference being the trans only cycles through 6 gears.
 

tnk_2

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Me too man. I got the car a couple of months and still trying to play around with all the mode . Ford should just have d only for normal driving and only 1 selection is to wet/snow available. Then s for sport and toggle switch to track , drag. .
 
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rocky5517

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This may help...

There are differences between TRANS modes and DRIVE modes (see further below).

This is what I posted a while back for new 10R80 Owners, so found it and clipped it again for the purpose of this thread content.

—-

All the info anyone needs to know about paddle shifting AND the Trans Modes AND the Drive Modes (a little long, but complete):

The below applies to the 2018 10R80, but still applies to the 2019+ w/10R80:.

Drive Mode info (ie: as pertaining to only the Center Stack “MODE” switch”).

This is directly form the 2018 Owners Manual (and can be found in prior year Owners manuals):
3F081674-F267-4BA7-8A2A-C6DE95B83404.jpeg
A9CC9212-5B79-4AC7-A2CC-7FA899E0E493.jpeg


And this will help you too:


Here’s some helpful info for new 10R80 (A10) Owners that I had posted a few times on here:

[1] Trans selector in Normal (D) mode:
After initial vehicle start up, when the Trans is in (D) and without driver intervention of touching the paddles, the trans is going to auto shift based on what it has adapated from learning the Driver’s driving habits and Ford’s mapping. The trans will hold the gear long enough as preprogrammed from Ford’s mapping and will auto down/up shift as needed based on that mapping AND the adapted Driver’s habits. The transmission will select the BEST and most OPTIMUM gear needed - it does NOT always shift like 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 nor does it downshift through 10 consecutive gears.... it could go 1,3,5 or if downshifting, go 9,7,5.... you get the idea.

HOWEVER, if the driver intervenes while in (D) and clicks up/down with the paddles, the trans will hold the gear selected longer than the preprogrammed mode, but it will NOT redline and will auto shift out into the next gear IF the driver has not. The same is true for downshifting.


[2] Trans selector in Sport (S) mode, the Driver has (2) options:

A)
Touch the paddle and the trans is now controlled strictly by the Driver. This means if you click the paddle from a dead stop and start accelerating - the trans will NOT shift from 1 to 2 (or into any next gear) until the Driver makes the change manually. The car WILL hold the gear and WILL redline until the manual change is made by the driver. If the car was in motion and the Driver clicked a paddle (up or down), again, the trans WILL hold the current gear and CAN redline until the Driver makes the manual change.

B) If after vehicle start up, the Driver selected (S) initially and has NOT touched the paddles at all (and does NOT touch them while driving) - in (S) the car will hold out the gears much longer than if in (D); the trans WILL auto shift but will NOT hold the gear out to redline based on the preprogrammed mapping from Ford. IF while driving, the user moves the shifter from (D) to (S) and the Driver does NOT touch the paddles, again the trans will react exactly in the same manner where it’s following the preprogrammed mapping from Ford.


—————

The DRIVE MODE S+ is totally separate from the transmission selections. The S+ Drive Mode is triggered and activated only when the driver manually selects this mode using drive mode toggle switch in the center stack and it only changes:
1) Engine performance due to preprogrammed engine parameters.
2) Trans shift points

When in drive mode S+ with shifter in D, the car will still auto shift - even if the user has touched a paddle - if the user does not touch a paddle again, the car will still auto upshift (or downshift) itself.

The ONLY time the trans allows the vehicle to be in “full manual mode” is when the operator puts the shifter selector into “S”, regardless of what “drive mode” the operator has chosen from center stack for engine performance.

If the vehicle drive mode is S+ and the Trans selector is in S, once the operator touches a paddle to upshift or downshift (while driving OR from a standing stop) - the trans is taken out of its own “auto logic” and is now in complete manual mode - it will NOT upshift at all until the operator manually shifts via the paddles.

——

The above also applies to the 6R80 in the prior 2015-2017’s, with the obvious difference being the trans only cycles through 6 gears.
 
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rocky5517

rocky5517

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Thanks CJ, that's what I was looking for, and I think I remember when you posted it. Do you see any difference in S+ and Drive, or S= and S? I'm not seeing much if anything
 

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rocky5517

rocky5517

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Track mode is my favorite. S+ has harder downshifts but track mode has faster upshifts.

I don’t know that D or S has any effect when a drove mode is selected if the paddles are not touched. I can tell zero difference.
 
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rocky5517

rocky5517

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That's what I was thinking B&B- that being in D or S has no effect on the mode you're in, at least when you're in S+. Thx! to you and Cobra Jet
 

Elp_jc

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If your auto Mustang has drive modes, the S tranny mode probably just becomes the manual/paddle control mode, other than the higher shift points if paddles are not touched, obviously. It makes no sense to have 2 separate throttle/steering/etc. sport modes; that's probably why no changes are felt.
 

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This may help...

There are differences between TRANS modes and DRIVE modes (see further below).

This is what I posted a while back for new 10R80 Owners, so found it and clipped it again for the purpose of this thread content.

—-

All the info anyone needs to know about paddle shifting AND the Trans Modes AND the Drive Modes (a little long, but complete):

The below applies to the 2018 10R80, but still applies to the 2019+ w/10R80:.

Drive Mode info (ie: as pertaining to only the Center Stack “MODE” switch”).

This is directly form the 2018 Owners Manual (and can be found in prior year Owners manuals):
3F081674-F267-4BA7-8A2A-C6DE95B83404.jpeg
A9CC9212-5B79-4AC7-A2CC-7FA899E0E493.jpeg


And this will help you too:


Here’s some helpful info for new 10R80 (A10) Owners that I had posted a few times on here:

[1] Trans selector in Normal (D) mode:
After initial vehicle start up, when the Trans is in (D) and without driver intervention of touching the paddles, the trans is going to auto shift based on what it has adapated from learning the Driver’s driving habits and Ford’s mapping. The trans will hold the gear long enough as preprogrammed from Ford’s mapping and will auto down/up shift as needed based on that mapping AND the adapted Driver’s habits. The transmission will select the BEST and most OPTIMUM gear needed - it does NOT always shift like 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 nor does it downshift through 10 consecutive gears.... it could go 1,3,5 or if downshifting, go 9,7,5.... you get the idea.

HOWEVER, if the driver intervenes while in (D) and clicks up/down with the paddles, the trans will hold the gear selected longer than the preprogrammed mode, but it will NOT redline and will auto shift out into the next gear IF the driver has not. The same is true for downshifting.


[2] Trans selector in Sport (S) mode, the Driver has (2) options:

A)
Touch the paddle and the trans is now controlled strictly by the Driver. This means if you click the paddle from a dead stop and start accelerating - the trans will NOT shift from 1 to 2 (or into any next gear) until the Driver makes the change manually. The car WILL hold the gear and WILL redline until the manual change is made by the driver. If the car was in motion and the Driver clicked a paddle (up or down), again, the trans WILL hold the current gear and CAN redline until the Driver makes the manual change.

B) If after vehicle start up, the Driver selected (S) initially and has NOT touched the paddles at all (and does NOT touch them while driving) - in (S) the car will hold out the gears much longer than if in (D); the trans WILL auto shift but will NOT hold the gear out to redline based on the preprogrammed mapping from Ford. IF while driving, the user moves the shifter from (D) to (S) and the Driver does NOT touch the paddles, again the trans will react exactly in the same manner where it’s following the preprogrammed mapping from Ford.


—————

The DRIVE MODE S+ is totally separate from the transmission selections. The S+ Drive Mode is triggered and activated only when the driver manually selects this mode using drive mode toggle switch in the center stack and it only changes:
1) Engine performance due to preprogrammed engine parameters.
2) Trans shift points

When in drive mode S+ with shifter in D, the car will still auto shift - even if the user has touched a paddle - if the user does not touch a paddle again, the car will still auto upshift (or downshift) itself.

The ONLY time the trans allows the vehicle to be in “full manual mode” is when the operator puts the shifter selector into “S”, regardless of what “drive mode” the operator has chosen from center stack for engine performance.

If the vehicle drive mode is S+ and the Trans selector is in S, once the operator touches a paddle to upshift or downshift (while driving OR from a standing stop) - the trans is taken out of its own “auto logic” and is now in complete manual mode - it will NOT upshift at all until the operator manually shifts via the paddles.

——

The above also applies to the 6R80 in the prior 2015-2017’s, with the obvious difference being the trans only cycles through 6 gears.
That explains it perfectly.
Thanks for posting!
 

MidwayJ

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That's what I was thinking B&B- that being in D or S has no effect on the mode you're in, at least when you're in S+. Thx! to you and Cobra Jet
I agree once you are in the S+ drive mode there is no difference between D vs. S. The more interesting comparison, though, is toggling back and forth between S+ and "normal" while the shifter is in S (so S+ vs. S). They both feel more aggressive than D most obviously because both change the shift points, but are the shift points the same? Does S increase throttle response just like S+, or by a lesser amount? Overall it's hard to tell. I think S+ feels more aggressive than S, but it's not as big a difference as going from D to S.

Or does the "+" in S+ refer only to steering feel and other dynamics, meaning shift points and throttle response are same between the two?
 

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I think the shift points may be the same, but the more aggressive throttle mapping in Sport+ may give you the feeling that they are not.
I mean, if in Normal mode, at a certain speed and a certain amount of pedal travel, it shifts at, say, 3000 rpm, then in Sport+, at the same speed and the same pedal travel, it might shift at 3500 rpm simply because that same amount of pedal travel gets translated into a wider throttle opening (so it's as if you were stepping harder on the gas, even if you actually aren't).
 

Cobra Jet

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The “S+” Drive mode is outlined in the attached Ford doc above - it changes throttle mapping, exhaust tone (if equipped with AE), suspension response (if equipped with MR) and lastly, steering response (defaults to “Sport” steering).

When in Drive Mode S+, the throttle mapping also includes the extended shift points in the RPM band - shifts are more pronounced in auto and when manually using the paddle shifters (regardless if Trans mode selected is D or S).

Separate the Trans Mode from the Drive Mode.

Drive Modes via center stack toggles = engine performance.

Trans Modes (D and S) = transmission performance.

When putting the Trans into “S” - all that essentially does is it extends the RPM range if NOT manually shifting. Once the Driver hits a paddle, it puts the Trans into full manual mode. Once that paddle is touched when in Trans Mode S, the Trans will NOT upshift at all until the user hits the paddle again. Yes you can redline the engine in Trans Mode S IF you had touched a paddle and did not hit the paddle again, because the Trans will not upshift after it gets the signal the Driver touched the paddle switch.

If the Trans were in D, the RPM shift points are smoother & shorter (optimized for mpg). If the user did exactly as noted above by hitting a paddle, the Trans would still AUTO upshift if the user did not touch the paddle again. When in Trans Mode D, the software logic is still in control, even after the driver hits a paddle - you cannot redline in Trans Mode D because the Trans will still auto-shift itself based on the preprogrammed logic.

Simply put:
Trans Mode D = shorter “auto” shift points based on MPH and RPM; allows user to manually shift but Trans logic still takes over.

Trans Mode S = longer “auto” shift points based on MPH and RPM; allows user to have full manual control of the transmission when using paddles - Trans logic will not “auto upshift” after a paddle was touched. However do note, it will auto-downshift based on MPH and RPM (ie: coming to a stop).
 
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rocky5517

rocky5517

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The “S+” Drive mode is outlined in the attached Ford doc above - it changes throttle mapping, exhaust tone (if equipped with AE), suspension response (if equipped with MR) and lastly, steering response (defaults to “Sport” steering).

When in Drive Mode S+, the throttle mapping also includes the extended shift points in the RPM band - shifts are more pronounced in auto and when manually using the paddle shifters (regardless if Trans mode selected is D or S).

Separate the Trans Mode from the Drive Mode.

Drive Modes via center stack toggles = engine performance.

Trans Modes (D and S) = transmission performance.

When putting the Trans into “S” - all that essentially does is it extends the RPM range if NOT manually shifting. Once the Driver hits a paddle, it puts the Trans into full manual mode. Once that paddle is touched when in Trans Mode S, the Trans will NOT upshift at all until the user hits the paddle again. Yes you can redline the engine in Trans Mode S IF you had touched a paddle and did not hit the paddle again, because the Trans will not upshift after it gets the signal the Driver touched the paddle switch.

If the Trans were in D, the RPM shift points are smoother & shorter (optimized for mpg). If the user did exactly as noted above by hitting a paddle, the Trans would still AUTO upshift if the user did not touch the paddle again. When in Trans Mode D, the software logic is still in control, even after the driver hits a paddle - you cannot redline in Trans Mode D because the Trans will still auto-shift itself based on the preprogrammed logic.

Simply put:
Trans Mode D = shorter “auto” shift points based on MPH and RPM; allows user to manually shift but Trans logic still takes over.

Trans Mode S = longer “auto” shift points based on MPH and RPM; allows user to have full manual control of the transmission when using paddles - Trans logic will not “auto upshift” after a paddle was touched. However do note, it will auto-downshift based on MPH and RPM (ie: coming to a stop).
 

MidwayJ

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When in Drive Mode S+, the throttle mapping also includes the extended shift points in the RPM band

Separate the Trans Mode from the Drive Mode.

Drive Modes via center stack toggles = engine performance.

Trans Modes (D and S) = transmission performance.

When putting the Trans into “S” - all that essentially does is it extends the RPM range if NOT manually shifting.

As you said, the throttle mapping of S+ also includes extended shift points so it affects both engine and transmission performance. My question was whether or not the extended shift points of shifting to S (when the drive mode is normal) are exactly the same as those of the S+ drive mode. They probably are. What I feel due to the change to the throttle mapping of S+ is likely what causes me to question it.

So no increased throttle response when shifting to S. Just the shift point changes. That would explain why S+ feels more aggressive than S but since the shift points are the most noticeable change to me, D to S feels like a more significant change than S to S+. I found it difficult to perceive whether shifting to S caused no throttle mapping change at all, or if it causing a "smaller" change than the S+ drive mode.
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