Pros and Cons: Engine Options?

[Lavien]

Please keep in mind that the Ecoboost motors are well known for having their peak torque come very early in the RPM range. The Ecoboost 2.0L in the Focus ST has peak torque come on at 3000 RPM. The 5.0L comes in at 4250 RPM and the 3.7L comes in at the same value. So I fully expect the 2.3L at 310/310 would have similar values at which point, provided the gearing is the same, the Turbo 4 would be either quicker due to weight differences or the same.

As for your assertion that if you want to autocross keep buying the 5.0L, well, for most of us who autocross, that much HP has limited uses, especially in the lower classes where we are required to keep relatively narrow street tires where the power is a detriment. As is the added weight. If the Turbo 4 is indeed coming at 3200-3300ish lbs and the GT at the 3400-3500lbs, there is a certain advantage there. As an autocrosser, I'm not interested in the 5.0L as an autocross motor, what I am interested in is the Turbo 4, it's reduced weight, and it's reasonable power levels.

My understanding was that the 2.0L EB4 such as the one in the Focus ST has peak torque come in at 2500RPM but the overboost feature allows it to produce between 5-10% more torque between 3000-4500RPM.

Regardless, I have yet to drive one but I hear its good fun. If I were to get the I4 it would be for daily use so a few other things would be of importance beyond your autocross needs. Certainly weight savings is a bonus for both worlds but fuel economy will be a big bonus for my DD commuting needs on mostly highways. Another concern I have is the 2.0L in the Focus ST has been described as "cemetery quiet" at idle and really despite the electronically enhanced sound symposer even with a heavy foot it just lacks that throatyness that will be needed for a Mustang. But we'll see what kind of magic Ford can do with the I4 in that regard.

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[Whiskey11]

My understanding was that the 2.0L EB4 such as the one in the Focus ST has peak torque come in at 2500RPM but the overboost feature allows it to produce between 5-10% more torque between 3000-4500RPM.

Regardless, I have yet to drive one but I hear its good fun. If I were to get the I4 it would be for daily use so a few other things would be of importance beyond your autocross needs. Certainly weight savings is a bonus for both worlds but fuel economy will be a big bonus for my DD commuting needs on mostly highways. Another concern I have is the 2.0L in the Focus ST has been described as "cemetery quiet" at idle and really despite the electronically enhanced sound symposer even with a heavy foot it just lacks that throatyness that will be needed for a Mustang. But we'll see what kind of magic Ford can do with the I4 in that regard.

Aside from overall volume of sound has Ford ever failed to deliver good sounding Mustangs? I mean even the Anemic 4.0L V6 had a pretty decent sound to it through the stock exhaust, there just wasn't much of it there!

 

[331coupe]

Mustang's 5.0 is making about the same power as the 6.2 Camaro.

For some reason I think people misunderstand this, can you build a smaller motor to make more power than a bigger motor? Yes you can...max out both combos and no you can't. Sure you can put better heads on a smaller motor than the bigger motor, or you can have a builder that really knows how to make power and one that doesn't and yes you can get more power out of that smaller motor. You take that 6.2l and put 4v dohc heads on it and the power level won't be the same anymore. People take the no replacement for displacement to literal. Sure you can add boost to a smaller motor and that can act as a "replacement", but now you add boost to the bigger motor and make more hp proving that displacement wins.

 

[Thed]

Exactly. Whether a turbo 4 cylinder can take much more boost and produce a lot more power than from the factory really depends on how strong its block and internals are.

Some recent turbo 4 cyl engines renowned for high mod-ability are ones from the WRX STI, Mitsubishi Evo, Dodge SRT4. Those engines could take a ton of aftermarket modding and push out tons more power reliably.

Turbo 4s are even pushing out a ton of power from the factory now. The Mercedes A45 AMG 2.0L single turbo 4 cyl ouputs 355 hp / 332 lb-ft from the factory. :eyebulge:

Don't forget, four cylinders have five main bearings, the same as a V8. Modern four-bangers can handle a stupid amount of power for what they are.

But nothing beats the Ford Lima 2.3L. Blocks proven reliable up to 1500 HP.

 

[331coupe]

Don't forget, four cylinders have five main bearings, the same as a V8. Modern four-bangers can handle a stupid amount of power for what they are.

But nothing beats the Ford Lima 2.3L. Blocks proven reliable up to 1500 HP.

The block isn't going to be your issue as much as rods and pistons and crank. You look at a 5.4 the block it self will handle as much hp as anyone has been able to make with one, same with the crank. It's the rods and pistons that wont hold up.

 

[nametoshowothers]

For some reason I think people misunderstand this, can you build a smaller motor to make more power than a bigger motor? Yes you can...max out both combos and no you can't. Sure you can put better heads on a smaller motor than the bigger motor, or you can have a builder that really knows how to make power and one that doesn't and yes you can get more power out of that smaller motor. You take that 6.2l and put 4v dohc heads on it and the power level won't be the same anymore. People take the no replacement for displacement to literal. Sure you can add boost to a smaller motor and that can act as a "replacement", but now you add boost to the bigger motor and make more hp proving that displacement wins.

Also need to take into account rpm's. The engine's power is directly related to air flow, as you know. Simply air flow = displacement x rpms x efficiency x inlet pressure

So you can adjust any factor to improve power, but it is all together that provides the true value

 

[dustyaman]

If the 4 cyl turbo can get 400 hp reliably without breaking open the block and keeping all the internals. Then count me in for one. I had a srt4 with over 300 hp at the wheels which isnt much but with the wieght of the srt4 with that power was one hell of a ride. So i would take a 3200 pound mustang with a reliable 400hp turbo 4 I would be happy.

 

[331coupe]

Also need to take into account rpm's. The engine's power is directly related to air flow, as you know. Simply air flow = displacement x rpms x efficiency x inlet pressure

So you can adjust any factor to improve power, but it is all together that provides the true value

This is where, heads, valve angles, intake and exhaust flow, cam lift and seperation, etc... all play a major role.

 

[331coupe]

If the 4 cyl turbo can get 400 hp reliably with breaking open the block and keeping all the internals. Then count me in for one. I had a srt4 with over 300 hp at the wheels which isnt much but with the wieght of the srt4 with that power was one hell of a ride. So i would take a 3200 pound mustang with a reliable 400hp turbo 4 I would be happy.

It would be a cool ride, no doubt, I just couldn't own a mustang that didn't have a v8. Maybe that's due to the fact that I have speed obsession and can't leave anything stock. So it benefits someone like me to start off with more CI so I can make big power later on down the road. For someone not interested in that type thing, the the 4cyl turbo would be perfect, and I'm sure a huge seller.

 

[dustyaman]

It would be a cool ride, no doubt, I just couldn't own a mustang that didn't have a v8. Maybe that's due to the fact that I have speed obsession and can't leave anything stock. So it benefits someone like me to start off with more CI so I can make big power later on down the road. For someone not interested in that type thing, the the 4cyl turbo would be perfect, and I'm sure a huge seller.

See thats cool with me everyone has there own taste. See I drag race my dodge ram. Hemi 3.92 gears 3000stall converter And a bunch of other stuff. I have my v8 rumble right now. And a truck that runs 13s is fun but Its not light on its feet. Which gets old.

 

[331coupe]

See thats cool with me everyone has there own taste. See I drag race my dodge ram. Hemi 3.92 gears 3000stall converter And a bunch of other stuff. I have my v8 rumble right now. And a truck that runs 13s is fun but Its not light on its feet. Which gets old.

Yeah I drag race as well, that's why I prefer the v8, not really a road course guy so the IRS and turbo v6 do little for me.

 

[Thed]

The block isn't going to be your issue as much as rods and pistons and crank. You look at a 5.4 the block it self will handle as much hp as anyone has been able to make with one, same with the crank. It's the rods and pistons that wont hold up.

Not to be a dick, but that's just pretty much stating the obvious. Although the stock 2.3L cast crank is god for 600 HP, more than I'd ever make in such a small engine for the street.

 

[Boydstang]

Pros List

Justin, I think this will help in your decision on which engine to get.............add this to the pros list...........

LOL

 

[MustangMarine]

It would be a cool ride, no doubt, I just couldn't own a mustang that didn't have a v8. Maybe that's due to the fact that I have speed obsession and can't leave anything stock. So it benefits someone like me to start off with more CI so I can make big power later on down the road. For someone not interested in that type thing, the the 4cyl turbo would be perfect, and I'm sure a huge seller.

Good open mind attitude about the various models that will be available. The way I look at it is the lower end models (like the turbo 4 cyl) will sell the largest numbers and the profit from that allows us to keep getting high-performance models like the Boss / GT350/500.

Unfortunately, other 'muscle car' communities see lots of hating on V6 models by V8 owners. Can't imagine how bad it'll be between V8 and 4 Cylinder owners. But, M6G has a real mature community so far so hopefully it won't happen much.

 

[DBCooper]

Ya, I used to be one of the people that considered the 6cyl mustangs as the "girl's model". However, now that we have a v6 that puts out as much hp as the v8's up to a few years ago, I don't see it that way anymore. From my viewpoint, as a non-racing, daily driver, there's not a lot I can't do with the v6. There's nothing I'll need the extra 150hp the v8 gives me.

I'm more than happy to use the extra savings for comfort options.

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