OPG - Which one?

[HISSMAN]

My car is 14 months old. I'm not waiting. I can not put my faith in a warranty and take the chance of it failing.
Not to mention having a dealer work on my car after everything I've done to it. I'm very meticulous and picky. I guess it's the selfish side of me being that I do all my own repairs and service. I've spent hours and days grinding, smoothing, painting, finishing everything the way I like it to have some careless person ruin what I worked hard at. But even if I'd had it 100% stock I know I still couldn't take it back. I'm going to order the TSS opg's and sprocket. Once I get time I'll swap everything out. I'll post everything as I go unless someone else does so before me. I also been thinking of making an engine support bar to hang the engine from that will bolt to the strut tower bolts once the strut tower is removed. I will be dropping my K member to remove the oil pan.

Are the voodoo engine's that different than the coyote? You don't have to remove the pan to do the oil pump in the coyote. You just need to remove the front pan bolts that go into the timing cover, then you can pull the timing cover.

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[stanglife]

Are the voodoo engine's that different than the coyote? You don't have to remove the pan to do the oil pump in the coyote. You just need to remove the front pan bolts that go into the timing cover, then you can pull the timing cover.

Pickup is integrated into the oil pan and extends into the oil pump housing.

 

[HISSMAN]

Pickup is integrated into the oil pan and extends into the oil pump housing.

So, it is different than the pickup here? Once you remove the front cover, you can just upbolt the pickup from the oil pump housing?

 

[stanglife]

Yes it's different. You can not unbolt the pickup. From it's orientation, I planned to experiment to see if you could rotate the pump housing off of the pickup tube, once unbolted - but I've been told by someone who did the swap that it couldn't be done that way. I'll still try but the info we have at this point indicates that the pan must be removed/lowered.

 

[HISSMAN]

Damn. That sucks. Learn a new thing everyday.

 

[stanglife]

 

[HISSMAN]

How is it fastened to the pump housing? Is it just a compression or slip fitting? Looks like you could just unbolt the housing from the block and slip it off.

 

[HISSMAN]

I don't see any bolt or nut placements...What am I missing?

 

[Lexluther]

Just out of curiosity, if you took part to a ford dealer and had them install the gear, would it retain warranty? Would think if the manufacturer has a warrantee and the ford Mechanic has his ass covered, what's the big deal? Sure I don't want them touching my car either and I feel pretty confident in what I do. I know I could do the job but if something else fails down the road, still within warranty, would be better if ford took care of it.

Depends on the dealer mine is ok doing my car. But they also sell Roush modified GT's, superchargers etc. So they are not afraid of the aftermarket if its top end stuff.

The only way to do it using all factory parts is to buy Ford Performance # M-6600-50CJ "5.0L TI-VCT BILLET STEEL GEROTOR OIL PUMP" from the Cobra Jet. Scrap the oil pump housing and just use the billet oil pump gears, MSRP for the assembly is $805

 

[Lexluther]

How is it fastened to the pump housing? Is it just a compression or slip fitting? Looks like you could just unbolt the housing from the block and slip it off.

You can't slip off the oil pump assembly because the crank shaft goes through the center of it. It needs to pull away from the block and slip off the crank. Problem is on the Shelby as the pic you've shown the oil pan has a male oil pick up tube. This goes into the female input of the oil pump assembly (there is a rubber gasket sealing it). So the oil pump assembly will not slide off because the male oil pick up tube molded into the oil pan is preventing it.

Solution is lower or remove the oil pan so there is no interference. Problem with that is the cooling fins on the composite oil pan doesn't give you any clearance so the K member (cross-member) has to be lowered or removed to gain clearance to get the oil pan lowered or off completely.

The GT mustang has a different oil pump housing where the oil pick up tube is bolted to the assembly. So you can unbolt it and slide off the oil pump. In your pick further above you can see the metal oil pick up tube sticking out of the oil pan. It shows it has a 2 bolt flange.

 

[65Terdlingua]

In my write up the main issue was cyro-treating to gain Rockwell hardness vs. heat treating. The cyro and the mfg. process is to blame for the MMR failing not the metal itself. Even if that is ignored there are many failures you can google while the other OPG options have't had any failures, so just call it peace of mind. Also for the cost there are better options with a better mfg. process and higher tolerances. Its not black and white looking at a chart and picking the right alloy.

Oh I was arguing your point. In fact I was agreeing, material selection is more than mech. properties on a chart, much more. My point was just to Voodoo that just because a material is case hardened doesnt mean its 'too hard', or that one material is better than another based on from mill properties.

 

[Voodooo]

I don't see any bolt or nut placements...What am I missing?

See the white pick up tube? It inserts into the oil pump socket.

 

[Voodooo]

Here's a thought also. "IF" and I mean IF the oil pump pick up tube o-ring was installed incorrectly or failed that would cause a low of oil pressure and a destroyed engine.

Think of sipping through a straw in an empty glass.

 

[Voodooo]

Oh I was arguing your point. In fact I was agreeing, material selection is more than mech. properties on a chart, much more. My point was just to Voodoo that just because a material is case hardened doesnt mean its 'too hard', or that one material is better than another based on from mill properties.

The chart I posted is not "case" harden. It simply shows the difference between normal "its natural state" and annealed. Annealing softens the steal. The point I'm also making is 4140 is a better choice over 9310. But, compared to stock anything is better. Even ash or oak.

 

[AceOne]

Great write-up, thanks!

I plan to keep my engine stock as long as the warranty is in place, and drive the crap out of it.

I am also an engineer, and my instincts tell me this:
There is nothing inherently wrong with the powdered metal OPG. It will be weaker than a billet version, but most critically, it is also much more brittle. I suspect that the failures people see are due to anomalies in the sintering, that lead to rapid cracks forming and relatively quick failure. It seems that most failures have occurred with less than 5000 miles on the car (maybe I'm wrong on that, in which case my theory probably does not hold).





So, if I drive the piss out of my car for 15,000 miles, it seems like I should be good to go, hopefully having proven that the specific gear I received does not have any defects that would lead to a rapid failure.

Even with that in mind, it does seem prudent to swap out to a stronger gear at some point, and going with as ductile a heat treatment as possible (while maintaining strength and hardness) would seem like a good plan given the difficulty in making the swap.

First though, I'd just like Ford to get their damn oil lines sorted.

Also, at the risk of derailing the thread a little:


How do you like the CPC Equipped Voodoo? If you've discussed this elsewhere, please share a link.



-T

The motor pulls real strong. I have a GT350R also and have run it only at COTA once so I can compare it to that motor. It did fell like it had better low end grunt than the FPC and they both rev to the moon! The deal with the 5.2 XS is that I also installed a new lightweight clutch at the same time as the new motor and it had high rpm shift issues. So I had to short shift it at OUSCI. This basically left me with a high horsepower "regular Coyote" performance wise. I didn't really get to wring it out hard and take advantage of the 8500 rpm capabilities that I was building the engine for. It also didn't give me a chance to evaluate my oil cooler setup for the motor since I never really ran it hard for extended 8K rpm usage on the road course. My GTPP Coyote at 400WHp would get hot and pull power briefly when I ran at NJMP. Three consecutive turns that needed 7500+ rpm...that would get the oil to hit the temp limits and cause it to pull power momentarily.
Even short shifting and granny shifting it on straights at OUSCI I did set a new personal best though so the potential is there. I just also need to get the clutch to perform as well as the Engine.

I have some sixth gen Camaros with 500+ whp and more torque to keep up with and this will hopefully do it.

Going bad to LVMS in March and hope to have it all sorted out by then.

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