Most forgiving SC car

[ShadesOfBloo]

...Was the 2012 GT500 easier to drive because only 550 HP vs the 650 for 2013/2014?
...Would tires alone solve any handling issues on previous GT500?

I don't think so. The magazine reviews I remember (and Randy Pobst's test drive, in particular) gave me the impression that the S197 GT500 never came with tires or suspension that was up to the power. When they went to the 5.8L 660hp engine they had made changes to the tires and suspension, and someone was like "Cool, let's make the power that much more over-the-top!"
After laps at Laguna Seca, the 2013 brakes sounded like a major weakness.
(That the average owner would never notice as they cruised around.)

I think tires are a big part of the solution, but the whole suspension is made for cruising, and combined with an engine made for bragging rights. The springs, dampers and bushings are all suspect.

Now, being a Mustang, there are ways to make it more forgiving. People ran laps with those GT500s, without melting brakes or crashing, so the knowledge is out there.
Maybe you'll find it on the right GT500 forum, or Track Mustangs Online...

A couple in my local sports car club had an S197 GT500, I saw it at autocross a lot, and "Mustang" was not a verb on their watch.
One day I was going to ask the guy about the suspension tuning (to copy it in Gran Turismo 6 ) and when I asked about spring rates and alignment he said "You'll have to ask Shawna, it's her car." She owned the GT500 and she was the household suspension expert. Yeah, hold on to Shawna, dude.

I've seen a YouTube video or 10 about the GT500, and a couple of them mentioned "spherical bearings" in the trailing arms as an important part of keeping the car stable at full power.

When I read about the GT500 that won the Ultimate Street Car Invitational in 2019, I found that he was using (among other things) a cambered rear axle assembly. That could easily cost $7000 and for that price you're really committed to whatever rear camber you order.

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[Strokerswild]

On topic, I'd say S550 GT500. The DCT and its software makes that car and all its power usable.

After owning one for many years, I wouldn't pick an S197 GT500. They're great in a straight line (assuming there's traction), otherwise not so much. Very nose heavy, understeering pigs (especially the '07-'10 iron block cars). The only S197 car I'd care to own at this point is a Boss 302.

I enjoy my hopped up (but no forced induction) S550 much more than any other Mustang I've owned.

 

[robvas]

The pro car reviewers mostly love the new wide body Hellcats. They say that the Hellcat is a blast to drive. I'd say you should really drive one and find out what you think. The Challenger is a nice big comfortable car. If you are mostly street driven and not looking for a road course car, I think the Hellcat would be a great choice.

I'd be in a Hellcat if I wasn't all about turning corners. For street use I would love to have one.

Don't tell the Boss 302 guys this, but....

Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat Widebody (2018)

2:59.8

Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca (2012)

3:02.8

 

[robvas]

I don't think so. The magazine reviews I remember (and Randy Pobst's test drive, in particular) gave me the impression that the S197 GT500 never came with tires or suspension that was up to the power.

I always wondered about this, too. I mean the Bilstein stuff is decent, but it's not 'great'. I'm assuming Magneride wasn't ready at that point (they used it in the 2015 GT350) or they didn't want to do the investment for 2 model years. Multimatic spool valve shocks/struts were being used by the competition, though.

And....the Goodyear F1's were trash. Imagine if they had stuck 305mm Trofeo R's all around like the 2015 Camaro Z/28 got?

After owning one for many years, I wouldn't pick an S197 GT500. They're great in a straight line (assuming there's traction), otherwise not so much. Very nose heavy, understeering pigs (especially the '07-'10 iron block cars). The only S197 car I'd care to own at this point is a Boss 302.

Counterpoint: boosted S197 Coyote is a ton of fun. Just a touch of raw blah blah whatever people want to call it

 

[Hack]

Don't tell the Boss 302 guys this, but....

Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat Widebody (2018)

2:59.8

Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca (2012)

3:02.8

I have been on track in the GT350 with a Hellcat (Charger) before. Can't remember if it was a wide body or not. The wide body definitely improves time. And the engine holds up really well for being supercharged. It doesn't heat soak or lose power after a couple laps.

The Hellcat was faster in the straights, but the GT350 took corners better.

 

[WItoTX]

Just my two cents but the HC Charger was the most forgiving car I've ever driven. You could slide the rear on it so predictably it was like driving in snow, but at 70-80 mph instead of 25.

 

[9secondko]

Don't tell the Boss 302 guys this, but....

Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat Widebody (2018)

2:59.8

Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca (2012)

3:02.8

Which track? Long straights definitely make a big difference in favor of the supercharged Dodge.

 

[robvas]

Which track? Long straights definitely make a big difference in favor of the supercharged Dodge.

FWIW the EcoBoost HiPo is only 1.5 seconds slower than the Laguna Seca Boss 302

 

[9secondko]

FWIW the EcoBoost HiPo is only 1.5 seconds slower than the Laguna Seca Boss 302

Ah. VIR. Definitely a few hairpin in there. But some really long straights too. Only 3 really challenging turn, with a 4th moderate turn. Its a track known to be favorable to high horsepower cars, even mores than to lesser powered cars with amazing handling capabilities. Still great representation for the Hellcat though.

 

[robvas]

Ah. VIR. Definitely a few hairpin in there. But some really long straights too. Only 3 really challenging turn, with a 4th moderate turn. Its a track known to be favorable to high horsepower cars, even mores than to lesser powered cars with amazing handling capabilities. Still great representation for the Hellcat though.

I think the most impressive thing about it is the Hellcat did it on a Pirelli PZ4 summer tire and not a "track-focused" tire like the Pirelli Corsas on the Boss (or the Trofeo R on the Dark Horse)

 

[9secondko]

I think the most impressive thing about it is the Hellcat did it on a Pirelli PZ4 summer tire and not a "track-focused" tire like the Pirelli Corsas on the Boss (or the Trofeo R on the Dark Horse)

imagine if dodge built an actual Mustang or corvette competitor platform meant to handle. Then shoehorn the next-gen twin turbo hellcat engine in there. If the old fat pig hellcat can do a decent job on a track, imagine what they could do if they tried. Heck, the old viper did a phenomenal job.

dodge makes crazy power, but they always saddlebag it with a crusty old, heavy platform. The new challenger platform is even worse. Would really like to see them get the whole package right.

as a bonus, if they actually did that, maybe we’d see far better performing, realistically priced gt500 tier mustangs again.

 

[Shane361]

I've got my 2014 Shelby GT500 for sale. Brand new 325 Toyo r88r's so traction is good on it's 700+ rwhp. Just paid 6k for the rims and tires. True Forged Chicanes. Good bit of Carbon Fiber around the car, upgraded radio that looks stock. All brakes and rotors just done.

Ton of mods, aftermarket blower, 58k miles...asking 48K which is a loss for me due to buying her for 44k and dropping over 10k on her.

 

[Hack]

imagine if dodge built an actual Mustang or corvette competitor platform meant to handle. Then shoehorn the next-gen twin turbo hellcat engine in there. If the old fat pig hellcat can do a decent job on a track, imagine what they could do if they tried. Heck, the old viper did a phenomenal job.

dodge makes crazy power, but they always saddlebag it with a crusty old, heavy platform. The new challenger platform is even worse. Would really like to see them get the whole package right.

as a bonus, if they actually did that, maybe we’d see far better performing, realistically priced gt500 tier mustangs again.

Yes, Challengers are heavy, but they have SLA front suspension. Obviously you can't negate the weight, but better suspension design does help handling. Just ask the GTD design team.

My new daily.

 

[9secondko]

Yes, Challengers are heavy, but they have SLA front suspension. Obviously you can't negate the weight, but better suspension design does help handling. Just ask the GTD design team.

My new daily.

Dang. Sweet ride. Normally would not have thought about that color but it's perfect. The wheels too.

 

[Balr14]

My son has a Shelby GT500. It handles well and is predictable. However, the ride is not forgiving and overall, it isn't the kind of car you want to take on a nice Sunday cruise. If I was looking for a comfortable, forgiving, SC car I could drive all day, it would be a CTS/V... or Black Wing.

I kind of wonder about the Dark Horse SC... it seems to be an improved version of the Shelby GT500. I wonder if it addresses the ride and general comfort issues?

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