Car and Driver: GT PP vs. 1LE vs. R/T Scat Pack

[Northman]

sorry if i came off like i was defending myself. more defending the many comments like mine from many people. Motortrend didn't specify but they clearly implied the Camaro's interior wasn't up to snuff by saying the Mustang is the much nicer car to sit in. The MT H2H comparison was also more of a Track/spirited driving comparison and not a comparison of the entirety of both cars. Most of the comments were relative to handling and track performance because that is what that comparison was all about. Motortrend wasn't trying to give anyone a comparison on the ability of each car as a DD, although they touched on it slightly, clearly stating the Mustang as the winner in that department.

I don't understand all the Motortrend hate, they highlighted the mustangs pro's and cons but only focused their commentary on the performance of both vehicles. As again, that's what their comparison was all about and there were many that wanted a review based solely on performance.

I never heard of a single person asking for a comparison of the Mustang interior vs the Camaro interior (pretty sure everyone already knew the answer to this question anyhow). Or even a comparison of ride quality as so many people are bringing up. The interest in comparing ride quality only came up when the cat was out of the bag and the 1LE was deemed the victor on the track and spirited driving. Everyone wanted to know how these things performed against each other. And motortrend gave these people what they wanted. Some just weren't happy with the result so they proceeded to bash the magazine.

For those not wanting to know strictly about performance we have articles like this C&D one. Which so far has no track or performance info.

That was my problem with the whole blow up following the MT article. I was disappointed with the Mustangs showing on the track against the 1LE but what I took from it was the Mustang is faster and better everywhere else. Now living where I live there are no autocross tracks just like the majority of muscle car owners. On a dragstrip and in the stoplight to stoplight the mustang is better. I wish ford offered a mustang package competitive with the 1LE but they don't. The GT350 will be faster but also more expensive so what does it prove exactly.

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[e30og]

sorry if i came off like i was defending myself. more defending the many comments like mine from many people. Motortrend didn't specify but they clearly implied the Camaro's interior wasn't up to snuff by saying the Mustang is the much nicer car to sit in. The MT H2H comparison was also more of a Track/spirited driving comparison and not a comparison of the entirety of both cars. Most of the comments were relative to handling and track performance because that is what that comparison was all about. Motortrend wasn't trying to give anyone a comparison on the ability of each car as a DD, although they touched on it slightly, clearly stating the Mustang as the winner in that department.

I don't understand all the Motortrend hate, they highlighted the mustangs pro's and cons but only focused their commentary on the performance of both vehicles. As again, that's what their comparison was all about and there were many that wanted a review based solely on performance.

I never heard of a single person asking for a comparison of the Mustang interior vs the Camaro interior (pretty sure everyone already knew the answer to this question anyhow). Or even a comparison of ride quality as so many people are bringing up. The interest in comparing ride quality only came up when the cat was out of the bag and the 1LE was deemed the victor on the track and spirited driving. Everyone wanted to know how these things performed against each other. And motortrend gave these people what they wanted. Some just weren't happy with the result so they proceeded to bash the magazine.

For those not wanting to know strictly about performance we have articles like this C&D one. Which so far has no track or performance info.

naw I see what you mean, but the Camaro is clearly more of a track car than anything else. I actually love the z/28 I might even plunk down for one if I had the dough, but that would be exclusively a weekend/track toy. no way I would buy either for a DD. If the Mustang's ride was brittle I wouldn't be looking at it either

 

[02gtnh]

Didn't car and driver show both the 1le and s550 about dead even on speed runs, with the 1le edging out the 1/4 mile?

 

[valentinoamoro]

This review says it well, thanks for sharing - The Mustang GT (and PP) is a jack of all trades but master of none (barring interior for sure). The Mustang has the best bandwidth - a great word to describe the car. It's similar in spirit to the BMW M235i (as opposed to say an all out track weapon M2), a fun lovely handling sports/road car that is enjoyable on a track/autox and amazing on the road, twisties and the commute. The 5.0 is more enjoyable to me than the LS3 and maybe as good (def way more efficient) than the 392. The Mustang is much smaller, slightly lighter (than the Camaro) and a tighter package. The chassis is extremely rigid and there is loads of natural feedback, again, aspects of a sports car that are difficult to fix in aftermarket.

Those seeking to make it more hardcore can always do so for relatively cheap with a tire and damper/shock swap (or wait for hardcore versions) and build off on top of the goodies Ford gives anyway (6 pistons, coolers, braces, torsen, ESP etc) AND the results can be extremely competitive if done right, but its almost impossible to fix ergonomic, interior quality, size, visibility etc shortcomings of the Camaro and Challenger (in the latter simply size, visibility and heft - the interior is nice and so the ergonomics). The Challenger also cannot be made into a handler - it's 1990's era E class chassis can only do so much.

That's why I am voting with my wallet and going with Ford for the first time in my life. The new Camaro will be a beast though but I dont like Chevy interiors (like the new Caddie interiors though) and their quality has taken a nosedive. Also, I've always preferred how Mustangs look and drive over Camaros.

 

[Taneras]

Didn't car and driver show both the 1le and s550 about dead even on speed runs, with the 1le edging out the 1/4 mile?

Yes but it was a slightly unfair comparison as they used the fully loaded GT. If we're talking about pure performance, which the MT article was more about, you could have reduced the weight by going with a base model and ran slightly better times and even looked good doing it because you'd lower the cost.

Still, though, the 1LE is nipping at the S550's heels with regards to acceleration. On the street its certainly a drivers race with the mustang having the a slight edge if drivers are equal.

As for the OP's thoughts, I don't think many here expected the 1LE to be the better daily driver. The frustration, at least for me, was the excuses given as to why the 1LE beat the GT PP, everything from tire replacement, to you not being a professional driver, to rarity was brought up. If it was an unfair comparison its only because the 1LE is just that far ahead of the GT PP on the track. Price range considered, essentially the best of both were pitted against one another and that's the way these comparisons work.

Does that mean the 1LE is a better car and the car for you? Depends on what you want... But it is a faster car around the track and I think the Mustang faithful would look better if we didn't try and come up with excuses. There's always a reason a certain car beats another, that's just physics. IMO pointing to different tires is a bit like pointing to the engine and saying well if we only had 30 more hp our favorite car would have won. I judge the packages as what you can get for a certain price, otherwise the excuses game makes any comparison nearly impossible.

The Mustang certainly deserves a lot of props, its a solid car for the price. Likewise, the 1LE deserves its props as well.

 

[Northman]

Didn't car and driver show both the 1le and s550 about dead even on speed runs, with the 1le edging out the 1/4 mile?

For straight line performance the scat pack was the clear winner. The mustang ran a 13.0 with a trap speed of 113. That seems a bit like driver error when you are looking at their overall times and trap speeds. The mustang however was significantly faster in the acceleration from 30 - 50 and 50 - 70. I wish they did a 30 - 70 time as that is where a lot of people use their car. It also showed that the mustang beyond 100 was a lot faster than the other two.

That's why I said the mustang was quicker on the street and I think it will be quicker on the strip as well, after break in, for the average guy/gal. That last part of course is just my opinion.

 

[OppoLock]

Yes but it was a slightly unfair comparison as they used the fully loaded GT. If we're talking about pure performance, which the MT article was more about, you could have reduced the weight by going with a base model and ran slightly better times and even looked good doing it because you'd lower the cost.

Still, though, the 1LE is nipping at the S550's heels with regards to acceleration. On the street its certainly a drivers race with the mustang having the a slight edge if drivers are equal.

As for the OP's thoughts, I don't think many here expected the 1LE to be the better daily driver. The frustration, at least for me, was the excuses given as to why the 1LE beat the GT PP, everything from tire replacement, to you not being a professional driver, to rarity was brought up. If it was an unfair comparison its only because the 1LE is just that far ahead of the GT PP on the track. Price range considered, essentially the best of both were pitted against one another and that's the way these comparisons work.

Does that mean the 1LE is a better car and the car for you? Depends on what you want... But it is a faster car around the track and I think the Mustang faithful would look better if we didn't try and come up with excuses. There's always a reason a certain car beats another, that's just physics. IMO pointing to different tires is a bit like pointing to the engine and saying well if we only had 30 more hp our favorite car would have won. I judge the packages as what you can get for a certain price, otherwise the excuses game makes any comparison nearly impossible.

The Mustang certainly deserves a lot of props, its a solid car for the price. Likewise, the 1LE deserves its props as well.

In all fairness, we're constantly going through tires with these cars, and it costs nothing more to buy a set of PSSs to replace the stock P Zeros. I wouldn't equate tire swaps with any other kind of modification.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Does that mean the 1LE is a better car and the car for you? Depends on what you want... But it is a faster car around the track and I think the Mustang faithful would look better if we didn't try and come up with excuses. There's always a reason a certain car beats another, that's just physics. IMO pointing to different tires is a bit like pointing to the engine and saying well if we only had 30 more hp our favorite car would have won. I judge the packages as what you can get for a certain price, otherwise the excuses game makes any comparison nearly impossible.

It's not a case of making excuses when a package that's nominally a performance package has every appearance of being compromised for the sake of appearance (i.e. wider rear track and staggered tire sizes). The 1LE already pointed out that the way to track performance at least for cars with normally aspirated engines of moderate power does not include tire size stagger . . . and the S550 is slightly more front-heavy. No, it probably wasn't necessary to eclipse the 1LE's performance. But coming closer with, say, 265 section tires on 9.5", maybe 10" wide wheels would have at least made it look like they were trying a little harder. I am not convinced that crutching a staggered tire setup with looser suspension tuning is really the way to go; it may in part explain the complaint of marginal composure on MT's figure-8 test.

The Mustang certainly deserves a lot of props, its a solid car for the price.

True, at least in comparison against its predecessor. That it can manage a faster lap time in spite of weight and acceleration handicaps is noteworthy. The 1LE remains my 'bogey' for getting around the corners, though.


Norm

 

[Todd15Fastback]

Didn't car and driver show both the 1le and s550 about dead even on speed runs, with the 1le edging out the 1/4 mile?

They were within a tenth but the S550 was 2mph faster. The S550 is also a full 5 seconds quicker to 150mph.

 

[Tim Hilliard]

They were within a tenth but the S550 was 2mph faster. The S550 is also a full 5 seconds quicker to 150mph.

There you go again Todd spewing all your accurate fan boy facts, shutting down all the circle logic now covers three separate threads and yet I still can't find a dealer with a 1LE. I can find plenty of '15 GTPP's it's almost like every GT has the PP at my regional dealers. Weird, comparing a Mustang to a Unicorn Camaro.

 

[TeddysStang]

In the Motortrend article they stated "Iron Mike Tyson once said, "Everyone' has a plan until they get punched in the mouth". That's no doubt how the good men and wome at Ford are feeling right now, especially because, as tested, the winning car (Camaro) costs about $4500 less than the optioned-up Mustang."

Well I don't feel punched in the mouth. Also, lest we forget, there have been comparos where the Camaro Z28 out handled a 2015 Porsche 911 Turbo and 2015 Nissan GTR Nismo on a track, as well as some Ferraris, and some of those cars are as much as 2 to 3 times more expensive than the Camaro, but I am sure that anyone who owns a Porsche or Ferrari doesn't feel "Punched in the mouth" and wouldn't trade their car in for Camaro Z28. Well, most people are going to drive their cars on public roads, not a track, and because the Camaro 1LE handled better on a track, doesn't impress me. Because the interior sucks, it's hard to see out of and it rides harsher on public roads. Also the styling is getting dated. It might be a little cheaper, but it also looks cheaper inside. Give me the "Stang" anyday.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

There you go again Todd spewing all your accurate fan boy facts, shutting down all the circle logic now covers three separate threads and yet I still can't find a dealer with a 1LE. I can find plenty of '15 GTPP's it's almost like every GT has the PP at my regional dealers. Weird, comparing a Mustang to a Unicorn Camaro.

Stupid me :frusty::headbonk:


:lol:

 

[Todd15Fastback]

In the Motortrend article they stated "Iron Mike Tyson once said, "Everyone' has a plan until they get punched in the mouth". That's no doubt how the good men and wome at Ford are feeling right now, especially because, as tested, the winning car (Camaro) costs about $4500 less than the optioned-up Mustang."

I missed that. We all know a base GT with PP is about 37k vs. 46k for a fully loaded GT.

 

[BobDigi5060]

Another 1 star thread, any discussion involving the Camaro 1LE turns into a pissing contest.

 

[valentinoamoro]

Looks like Chevy is releasing 1LE and Z28 parts for the regular SS owners. Pretty impressive stuff.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/05/chevy-colorado-camaro-parts-review/

Hoping Ford does the same for us GT PP guys in the future.

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