Car and Driver: GT PP vs. 1LE vs. R/T Scat Pack

[Tim Hilliard]

Looks like Chevy is releasing 1LE and Z28 parts for the regular SS owners. Pretty impressive stuff.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/11/05/chevy-colorado-camaro-parts-review/

Hoping Ford does the same for us GT PP guys in the future.

They always had the 1LE/ZL1 parts available, they just added the Z-28 parts. Andnow you can buy the C7 engine as a crate.

Ford Racing will have everything available from the PP.

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/camaro-parts/z28.html?eVar36=MRM_eml_CPfuel_eNews_7_adhoc_hr_1114_14232835634

I got this email yesterday and was going to add it to the discussion but I don't really care that much.

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[Northman]

In the Motortrend article they stated "Iron Mike Tyson once said, "Everyone' has a plan until they get punched in the mouth". That's no doubt how the good men and wome at Ford are feeling right now, especially because, as tested, the winning car (Camaro) costs about $4500 less than the optioned-up Mustang."

Well I don't feel punched in the mouth. Also, lest we forget, there have been comparos where the Camaro Z28 out handled a 2015 Porsche 911 Turbo and 2015 Nissan GTR Nismo on a track, as well as some Ferraris, and some of those cars are as much as 2 to 3 times more expensive than the Camaro, but I am sure that anyone who owns a Porsche or Ferrari doesn't feel "Punched in the mouth" and wouldn't trade their car in for Camaro Z28. Well, most people are going to drive their cars on public roads, not a track, and because the Camaro 1LE handled better on a track, doesn't impress me. Because the interior sucks, it's hard to see out of and it rides harsher on public roads. Also the styling is getting dated. It might be a little cheaper, but it also looks cheaper inside. Give me the "Stang" anyday.

That's extremely misleading. An equally optioned Camaro is more expensive... and uglier

 

[Kjw86ca]

Shoot, I just realized this thread was started. I posted full article with pictures in the general discussion forum. I get lost with all of these sub-forums. Sorry 'bout it.

 

[JohnZiraldo]

In the Motortrend article they stated "Iron Mike Tyson once said, "Everyone' has a plan until they get punched in the mouth". That's no doubt how the good men and wome at Ford are feeling right now, especially because, as tested, the winning car (Camaro) costs about $4500 less than the optioned-up Mustang."

I missed that. We all know a base GT with PP is about 37k vs. 46k for a fully loaded GT.

I wouldn't be surprised that if the 2015 vert were available that MT would have used that, if they could find one fully loaded.

 

[68fbjjz109]

There you go again Todd spewing all your accurate fan boy facts, shutting down all the circle logic now covers three separate threads and yet I still can't find a dealer with a 1LE. I can find plenty of '15 GTPP's it's almost like every GT has the PP at my regional dealers. Weird, comparing a Mustang to a Unicorn Camaro.

You are not going to find that many of them, Ford has built twice as many Boss Mustang as 1LE options selected in the years both where available. It seems on average GM produces 2000-2400 1LE optioned Camaros' a year, Ford has built 4000-4300 Boss Mustangs.

Frankly I can't believe the overly harsh comparison between these cars is still going.

The facts is the 1LE Camaro is more expensive; heavier; has a softer larger, tire on all four corners; has more aggressive bolt in suspension components; and is faster than the GTPP; as it was meant to beat the Boss and is often successful.

As the Pill often states, in order to beat the Boss the 1LE has pushed some of it's components outside of the realm of where the Boss is legal to compete.

The GTPP, is cheaper, lighter; runs a smaller less aggressive tire that offers superior cold performance in comparison to the F1 G2's; it's suspension is softer, and less aggressive but will likely sell 40K units. The Chassis is superior the the Camaro current gen, and everyone will be anxiously waiting to see how it performs against the ATS based chassis. The GTPP is a better DD, and seems to have plenty left on the table in terms of power, and likely over all platform performance. Which it will need.

What we know is the S550 is faster than the SN197, and the SN197 has a great performance track record against the Camaro in competition. Where tire, wheel, brake combinations, and power are governed. This shows how well sorted the SN197 as a chassis against the 5th Gen Camaro.

I don't see the GTPP vs the 1LE performance as any measure of defeat. The 1LE is clearly faster, but look at the other cars the 1LE and GTPP are besting or perform very closely with. It's incredible. This is a great time to be a car enthusiasts, a great time to be a pony car fan, and a great time to be a Mustang fan.

 

[Norm Peterson]

You are not going to find that many of them, Ford has built twice as many Boss Mustang as 1LE options selected in the years both where available. It seems on average GM produces 2000-2400 1LE optioned Camaros' a year, Ford has built 4000-4300 Boss Mustangs.

Over a two year production span, that's . . . 2000 - 2150 Bosses per year. Hmmm . . .

Frankly I can't believe the overly harsh comparison between these cars is still going.

They're both supposed to be at the top of the cornering & handling food chain. There is some understanding that the PP isn't intended to be as hardcore as the 1LE, but that speaks more harshly to intent than it does to the results.

As the Pill often states, in order to beat the Boss the 1LE has pushed some of it's components outside of the realm of where the Boss is legal to compete.

I wasn't aware that he picked on the 1LE, or that the 1LE had any components illegal for competition like the Z/28 has. It's the Z/28 that brings the Pill out in fine form.

I don't see the GTPP vs the 1LE performance as any measure of defeat. The 1LE is clearly faster, but look at the other cars the 1LE and GTPP are besting or perform very closely with. It's incredible.

Yes, it's impressive. But in any form of competition, second place in class is still "1st loser".

I'm beginning to wonder if the PP should have been called a "Sport Package" instead, as that's what its somewhat "softer" character really suggests. "Sport Suspension" was in fact the name of the handling-oriented suspension package I opted for on a 1979 Chevy Malibu, which truly was a mainstream-acceptable suspension calibration.

Should have left the PP designation available for a truly 1LE-capable package, and let the GT350 butt heads with the Z/28.


Norm

 

[Vernichtung]

I'm beginning to wonder if the PP should have been called a "Sport Package" instead, as that's what its somewhat "softer" character really suggests. "Sport Suspension" was in fact the name of the handling-oriented suspension package I opted for on a 1979 Chevy Malibu, which truly was a mainstream-acceptable suspension calibration.

Should have left the PP designation available for a truly 1LE-capable package, and let the GT350 butt heads with the Z/28.


Norm

And, who knows, perhaps Ford has a 1LE fighter in the works; or, better yet, a 2016 Camaro fighter. Surely Ford has left something for the S550 "outer" years. Maybe Ford, like GM does with the 1LE, will utilize GT350 (a car that hasn't been officially announced by Ford, yet) suspension components and tires on a GT and label it their "track package." At this point there are a lot of unknowns; what is known, though, is that the Boss Mustang wasn't released to coincide with a new model, nor was the Camaro 1LE. To me, it feels as though Ford made a slightly more-taut suspension for the European crowd and siezed an opportunity to offer a "performance package" to us Americans.

Let's keep the faith. I have to believe Ford had a surprise or two left up their respective sleeves. I know I haven't given up the hope.

 

[TeddysStang]

That's extremely misleading. An equally optioned Camaro is more expensive... and uglier

I agree. The one they drove, didn' have Nav, or Heated and cool seats or alot of the things the premium comes with.

 

[02gtnh]

But the s550 was still lighter and had more power yet still lost. The 2ss or fully loaded only weighs less then 30 lbs more. You think that 30lbs would of made a difference?

 

[Northman]

But the s550 was still lighter and had more power yet still lost. The 2ss or fully loaded only weighs less then 30 lbs more. You think that 30lbs would of made a difference?

Lost what... it had a higher trap speed and has run quicker with other drivers and won the majority of their testing parameters. In fact this comparison was a wash and the mustang slaughtered the other two. :shrug:

 

[Tim Hilliard]

I'm baffled by some of the points people bring up. I don't get it, why are a very vocal percentage of people on this forum if everything about the '15 a problem. It ceased being a discussion long ago. Let's just pile on and complain. a Majority don't appear to be purchasing a vehicle so I don't get it, why is it a problem, just go away, you bring nothing to the table, you obviously don't like the car, that's fine, there's the door. In the past week I've watched ridiculous comments evolve as they were questioned. I'm tired of clicking on the unsubscribe tab in my email notifications. This forum is being ruined by a small group and that makes me sad.

 

[JohnZiraldo]

I'm baffled by some of the points people bring up. I don't get it, why are a very vocal percentage of people on this forum if everything about the '15 a problem. It ceased being a discussion long ago. Let's just pile on and complain. a Majority don't appear to be purchasing a vehicle so I don't get it, why is it a problem, just go away, you bring nothing to the table, you obviously don't like the car, that's fine, there's the door. In the past week I've watched ridiculous comments evolve as they were questioned. I'm tired of clicking on the unsubscribe tab in my email notifications. This forum is being ruined by a small group and that makes me sad.

I had to chuckle while reading your comments.

If it weren't for words like 'vehicle', your comments could have been from a conservative while watching MSNBC after the midterms.

I think it is because those who have nothing of quality to say, try to make it up with quantity.

 

[Sasuketr]

I owned a 2012 2ss/rs 6mt plus sunroof top of the line camaro before i traded in for a 2014 grand cherokee. The camaro didn't even have the nav screen which they started putting on the 2013's. The weight with full tank was over 3910 lbs. I assume the loaded new ones are even heavier than that. With all that luxury i had in the camaro it is not even close to the comfort of a base premium 2015 mustang without any package. The camaro really needed the 3.91 gears to move quicker cause the only time the car was a beast was when i had 1/8th of a tank fuel on board, the first gear with 3.31 didn't feel right. As i owned both cars i can proudly say that the new mustang is something special and feels, drives like a car twice the price it is, period. Also it is possible to shave 50lbs or more with just swapping a catback and lighter tires for the mustang. My corsa sport exhaust i had on the camaro only shaved 9 lbs and the 20" wheels are heavier. I hope GM will come back with a better car next year, love and respect for all american muscle. Cheers.

 

[Malikona]

Motor Trend seems to be the only publication billing the 2015 Mustang GT PP a pitchy, wallowy handful.

This review (and others) make the MT review seem a little myopic. At the limit is basically where the 1LE outperforms the Mustang, and while MT spent their entire review at the limit, actual drivers (even ones who push the car hard) spend maybe 1% of their time at the limit.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

But the s550 was still lighter and had more power yet still lost. The 2ss or fully loaded only weighs less then 30 lbs more. You think that 30lbs would of made a difference?

We get it....you are not a fan of the S550. Go buy you a Camaro and be happy:frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty:

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