Help me understand E85

[sk47]

Oh OK. For a second there I thought maybe you believed they were using people food corn for Ethanol. Understood!

Hello; I actually considered adding to my post that plants other than food grade ought to be considered for making ethanol. I last looked into the fuel ethanol when it was first mandated many years ago. Maybe 20 years or more by now. Pretty sure they were using food grade corn back then. I had one of the major scientific journals with a long report on the subject. In addition to the results showing a small increase in overall fuel supply after the fossil fuels necessary to grow and process the corn back then, there was a section about the impact on world food supplies.
I had not kept up with the process and did not know a genetically modified corn has been developed more tailored for ethanol production. Makes sense and lessens the impact of using actual food grains.
There is the opportunity cost of using land that could grow food specific grains/corn as K4fdx correctly pointed out. However, I was somewhat mistaken as i was still under the impression some food corn was being used.

There were many options looked at back before fracking and other techniques improved the oil/natural gas supply. Switchgrass to make a biofuel. Pig manure to make methane and such.

I stand corrected and do not mind learning about new (to me) things.

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[Cordero1]

Hello; I actually considered adding to my post that plants other than food grade ought to be considered for making ethanol. I last looked into the fuel ethanol when it was first mandated many years ago. Maybe 20 years or more by now. Pretty sure they were using food grade corn back then. I had one of the major scientific journals with a long report on the subject. In addition to the results showing a small increase in overall fuel supply after the fossil fuels necessary to grow and process the corn back then, there was a section about the impact on world food supplies.
I had not kept up with the process and did not know a genetically modified corn has been developed more tailored for ethanol production. Makes sense and lessens the impact of using actual food grains.
There is the opportunity cost of using land that could grow food specific grains/corn as K4fdx correctly pointed out. However, I was somewhat mistaken as i was still under the impression some food corn was being used.

There were many options looked at back before fracking and other techniques improved the oil/natural gas supply. Switchgrass to make a biofuel. Pig manure to make methane and such.

I stand corrected and do not mind learning about new (to me) things.

Well in a way in the end we are eating it. The end product of the Enogen & Milo that is used ends up as wet cake. Which is then sold & fed for cattle feed once the Ethanol is extracted along with the oil. But you are correct, as I grew up in this town we used to be surrounded by sweet corn, for people consumption. Now all you see is Milo for miles. There are other crops, but when driving on back roads & highway, all I see is Milo

 

[AZ18yote]

Nice numbers! Was the pull/tune done on a DynoJet Dyno? What other mods do you have done to your Bullitt?

My 2019 Bullitt came in a 22 hp less than yours with LTHs, E85, PMAS and an x-pipe.

I run flex full time for convenience and due to not alot of stations carrying in my area. Kept oem intake with drop in to help keep iats down here in the Phoenix heat. Biggest difference though I went the route of reducing rotational weight to mitigate parasitic hp loss to the wheels. Light weight wheels, light weight CF drive shaft etc. Put down 516whp/454wtq in the April temps here which would have been in the 90s.

Reducing key weights really helps to put more down.

 

[EFI]

Running low? Better be able to make it to your intended gas station, because you can't just fill up anywhere anymore.

Most tuners offer a 93 and E85 tune separately. If you're really in that much of a pinch, you can always flash to the 93 tune in a few minutes and be on your way with pump gas.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Most tuners offer a 93 and E85 tune separately. If you're really in that much of a pinch, you can always flash to the 93 tune in a few minutes and be on your way with pump gas.

its true. Thats definitelyan option

 

[NGOT8R]

I run flex full time for convenience and due to not alot of stations carrying in my area. Kept oem intake with drop in to help keep iats down here in the Phoenix heat. Biggest difference though I went the route of reducing rotational weight to mitigate parasitic hp loss to the wheels. Light weight wheels, light weight CF drive shaft etc. Put down 516whp/454wtq in the April temps here which would have been in the 90s.

Reducing key weights really helps to put more down.

Well heck, it sounds like I need to drop some weight from mine then.

 

[Gfswindle]

I'm planning on doing a flex tune in the future once I settle on a tuner and then I'll focus on reducing rotating mass. Lighter wheels and 2pc brake rotors are high on that list.

 

[hockale1]

Our on board NTK sensors read in true Lambda. They are far more accurate (within 2%) in reading AFR than the inline sensors systems (3-5% accuracy). that only measure Alcohol content.

Only advantage to the inline sensor is the ability to run a wider range of Ethanol percentage so STFT’s can swing far more than the standard mapping of 25%.

But for a straight E85 calibration, the upstream wideband O2 sensors work perfect for allowing a range of E70-E90.

This guy knows. Fuel adaptives will correct any minuscule error in fuel type infer.
The more pertinent rationale for utilizing an E85 cal over flex fuel is that the ff cal will not be able to modify the actual borderline spark table output, the most you will get is whatever you have in the knock adder table, which generally you will get it all because E85 typically pegs the knock learning to full advance. You can add a couple degrees to the knock adder table to more or less simulate separate ff borderline spark, but you run the risk of over advancing on mid and premium fuels and possibly over retard on 87. The resolution and ethanol-dependency of a true E85 borderline cal will allow for better optimization.

 

[Xavier208]

Somewhat unrelated question but I’ve been on a dedicated e85 tune usually get around 150-170mi range filled up yesterday on e85 and got 260mi range should I be concerned?? I did have the battery disconnected for sometime on Sunday while relocating my amp in my trunk.

 

[kz]

Somewhat unrelated question but I’ve been on a dedicated e85 tune usually get around 150-170mi range filled up yesterday on e85 and got 260mi range should I be concerned?? I did have the battery disconnected for sometime on Sunday while relocating my amp in my trunk.

Range is estimated based on recent mileage - it probably got reset and it has nothing to do with the gas you got.

 

[Xavier208]

Range is estimated based on recent mileage - it probably got reset and it has nothing to do with the gas you got.

Figured I was over reacting I threw it on a flex tune then added about 2 or 3 gallons of 91 just to be safe.

 

[hockale1]

Somewhat unrelated question but I’ve been on a dedicated e85 tune usually get around 150-170mi range filled up yesterday on e85 and got 260mi range should I be concerned?? I did have the battery disconnected for sometime on Sunday while relocating my amp in my trunk.

I rarely get below 200 miles to a tank of E85 (usually ~E77 in my area). What AFRs are you seeing? Are you getting a true E85? The lowest you should see on E85 should be in the neighborhood of 9.8:1, unless you get into cat protect from repeated WOTs, then you’ll get something like 7.7-8.0:1.

 

[Xavier208]

I rarely get below 200 miles to a tank of E85 (usually ~E77 in my area). What AFRs are you seeing? Are you getting a true E85? The lowest you should see on E85 should be in the neighborhood of 9.8:1, unless you get into cat protect from repeated WOTs, then you’ll get something like 7.7-8.0:1.

Usually it’s around 10:1 and typically fuel is around e70-e95

 

[Earlsays]

Coyote F150 has Flex fuel capability from the factory - Mustang with a coyote does not. Why not? Is the fuel system really all that different between the two? Is it nothing more than different factory ECU tuning?

 

[K4fxd]

Is it nothing more than different factory ECU tuning?

For some reason known only to Ford, they turned off the flex fuel setting in the mustang ECU. All the tuners do for a flex tune is flip the switch and fill in a few tables that ford left zeroed out.

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