Hellion Street Sleeper VS. Twin screw dyno!

[mustank]

I don't have a problem with the dyno numbers. I have a problem with making it seem like their $6395 price tag got this guy 1,000 HP.

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[HELLION TURBO]

I am with this guy. These #s are just Yuge!! Us Mustang guys are not all idiots. Please stop this madness. Should I pull my JT Vortech for the sleeper kit? Absolutely. But please stop with the exaggeration. It is a insult to us guys. We went through this on another thread and now here we are again.

Hello. We would never try to insult anyone here. We love the community and have been building and testing systems for over 15 years. We understand that this seems excessive to some on this forum, but this is the reality of twin turbo vs. supercharger. Superchargers take A LOT of power to turn. That equals lost RWHP. See below a comparison of the same car with 21 psi with the supercharger vs. the same 16 psi pull with the Hellion street sleeper...same dyno...same tuner...same elevation etc. Just simply a swap from a twin screw to a Twin turbo. In fact, the supercharger had 23 degrees of timing to the 21 for the turbo.

A majority of our sales are from "underwhelmed" customers who are taking the supercharger off to replace it with our kit. We are just being transparent to insure our customers are informed and make the correct choice

10 years ago the older modular engines could not live and take the power that the new engines can, so a small blower was ok....That is not the case anymore, its time to feed these new coyotes the air they can handle!!!

The sleeper kit has been very popular and we are sure you will see more graphs from others very soon.

 

[HELLION TURBO]

I don't have a problem with the dyno numbers. I have a problem with making it seem like their $6395 price tag got this guy 1,000 HP.

What problem did you see? This customer bought the kit right from us with a cost of $6395. He already had a built motor, injectors, and fuel system. After an install at The Dyno Edge it went straight to on the dyno and he is daily driving it now.

 

[HELLION TURBO]

What supercharger? over pulley'd excesive intake inlet temps?

Without isolating any certain company, we can just say it is a very common unit spoken about in this forum.

 

[torino501]

I think I saw a video of vmp cracking over 1k h/p with their mustang with the gen3.... may have been more? maybe the gen3 wasn't properly tuned on yalls dyno?

 

[HELLION TURBO]

I think I saw a video of vmp cracking over 1k h/p with their mustang with the gen3.... may have been more? maybe the gen3 wasn't properly tuned on yalls dyno?

This vehicle was tuned by Chris Groves at The Dyno Edge with both combinations. The customer had purchased the original supercharger and spent hours upon hours on the dyno trying to refine it. In the end the swap to a Street Seeper kit is what was needed to made this big gain.

 

[gixxersixxerman]

Did I really read some people say “8.3lbs is 8.3lbs” it’s the same hahaha.. come on here talking mess and ignorant themselves.. here my focus st made 285whp on the stock turbo e30 at 23psi.. after the “big turbo” swap for a GTX2867R gen2 at 23psi it made 355whp on e30. 445 on e30 with 70/30 meth at 28psi.. but no.. just because they read the same psi doesn’t mean the flow the same air..

let me edit and state it wasnt so much to the original guy that stated number more so to the others calling bs. Yall dont understand the power it takes to turn a SC and then how much more efficient twins are at making that boost. how much more air they flow

 

[Torinate]

Did I really read some people say “8.3lbs is 8.3lbs” it’s the same hahaha.. come on here talking mess and ignorant themselves.. here my focus st made 285whp on the stock turbo e30 at 23psi.. after the “big turbo” swap for a GTX2867R gen2 at 23psi it made 355whp on e30. 445 on e30 with 70/30 meth at 28psi.. but no.. just because they read the same psi doesn’t mean the flow the same air..

let me edit and state it wasnt so much to the original guy that stated number more so to the others calling bs. Yall dont understand the power it takes to turn a SC and then how much more efficient twins are at making that boost. how much more air they flow

Ok. Ignoring the snarky snide comments, School me on this.

Boost value Ian a function of restriction, correct? When my old R Trim made 26 lbs of boost and then I had my heads reported and custom intake, my boost with the same set up went to 18, but now the car went much quicker and gained 7 mph in the quarter. I reduced the restriction- my boost pressure went down.

But, on the same engine with the exact same boost, how does the flow increase if the restrictions are the exact same? I’m a medical guy... let’s say your blood pressure is 120/80. Perfect. Now you’re a little overweight etc and it goes to 140/90. Is the volume pumping the same? It may be a volume issue itself - too much volume causing the BP to rise and your MD gives you a diuretic to relive some volume of fluid to reduce the pressure. In these examples, the flow has been the same - the resistance or back pressure or restriction has been the same. So, with the same restrictions, the increased volume caused the increase in pressure (boost #).

Sorry. Long winded for sure! I’m just trying to grasp the concept that the exact same pressure could have a different flow characteristic with the exact same restrictions. In he original example, I’d boost pressure (ie retriction) is the exact same, how could one make 370 more horsepower? Yes, Superchargers take horsepower to spin. Yes IAT will play a roll. But how do you flow that much more air -370 hp worth!- at the same restriction level?

I may not be the smartest here when it comes to this. I dabbled for a LONG time years ago so if you could offer your expertise it would be appreciated. The difference in your personal example could likely have been the increased efficiency in the new turbo not heating the air up as much and providing a cooler charge temperature versus increasing the actual flow of air.

Or am I completely wrong... I could be. If I am. Teach me!!!

 

[awdtsi]

The restriction isn't the same though. You've removed the supercharger from the intake path. The supercharger effectively is a restriction. Now you're making 16 psi with turbos through a traditional intake manifold with much less restriction. So therefore you're flowing a lot more air to make the same psi which is where the increase in hp comes from at the same boost levels. That's my thought process anyway.

 

[Torinate]

SO you’re saying the supercharger is the restriction? That’s like saying the heart is the restriction...

The restriction comes after the pressure inducing part, be it turbo or supercharger. Those pieces are the pressure inducing parts. Unless you’re running the supercharger without a belt, in which case they would certainly be a restriction in the intake. Picture of you will blowing into a McDonalds straw. No matter how hard you blow (pressure) the size of the straw itself is the restriction doesn’t matter if you blow or a child blows through it, the volume the straw - engine - can allow through is the same. If the man is the turbo and the child a supercharger, ultimately the man can exert more pressure than the child can, but the straw itself is the restriction. The straw or engine doesn’t care who or what is pumping the air through, it only knows the exact amount that can get through it. How does the flow out the back of the straw increasenunless the pressure pushing into the straw changes?

Not trying to be difficult, just trying to make sense of this... I’ve had several supercharged cars buyback really only 2 turbo cars. And only one where I really played with the turbo for more power.

Just noticed your user name. AWD TSI. That was the one turbo car I did really play with. Long live the DSM!

 

[Crackerjack17]

The restriction isn't the same though. You've removed the supercharger from the intake path. The supercharger effectively is a restriction. Now you're making 16 psi with turbos through a traditional intake manifold with much less restriction. So therefore you're flowing a lot more air to make the same psi which is where the increase in hp comes from at the same boost levels. That's my thought process anyway.

The supercharger isn't a restriction. The boost # is the pressure after the supercharger. I would venture to say the biggest gain would come from the reduction in parasitic losses.

 

[Torinate]

The supercharger isn't a restriction. The boost # is the pressure after the supercharger. I would venture to say the biggest gain would come from the reduction in parasitic losses.

I would agree. But 370 horsepower worth? To me, that seems like a crazy number! I’d like hear from the experts as far as truly what sort of pumping losses one can really expect from a supercharger.

 

[rainmaker]

Real world example - Turbo car left lane making 2 psi less then my supercharged car in the right lane. Turbo car trap’d 151mph & some change that day to my best of 147 mph. Same fuel and all other variables very similar. Turbo car makes mo PWR with less boost - end of thread.

 

[gixxersixxerman]

Picture of you will blowing into a McDonalds straw. No matter how hard you blow (pressure) the size of the straw itself is the restriction doesn’t matter if you blow or a child blows through it, the volume the straw - engine - can allow through is the same. If the man is the turbo and the child a supercharger, ultimately the man can exert more pressure than the child can, but the straw itself is the restriction. The straw or engine doesn’t care who or what is pumping the air through, it only knows the exact amount that can get through it. How does the flow out the back of the straw increasenunless the pressure pushing into the straw changes?

great you said this, this is what i was taught a long time ago.

Your lungs would just be a blower and not a compressor. A turbo physically compresses the air as it passes through it. It isn't just merely moving it from one place to another like your lungs would. A roots style supercharger has no internal compression much like your lungs. Any compression that takes place is within the manifold or engine itself. If we take 2 different sized roots superchargers and installed them on an engine, if we had 10 psi with both, we'd also have the same flow with both. 1PSI = 1LB force per square inch (not Pounds of air per square inch!) - think about it, a square inch is a unit of area, not volume. 10 PSI = ten pound of force exerted exerted on every square inch of internal surface area of the intake manifold and intake ports = says nothing about how much air is in the intake/engine ( if it did it would be per cubic inch) just how much force the air is exerting as it gets force fed from the turbo's compressor.

 

[lxh89]

SAE correction factor inflates turbo numbers at high altitudes. The topic has been discussed previously...

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