It all spells bullsh!t to me. Just letters invented in 2015 when the camaro was no longer the sales leader. Remember how camaro5 used to put out a thread. Ever month with pretty graphs and pie charts? Now they get to reminisce about the good old days ever 3 months.
My "comparably equipped" PP2 MSRP'd $3400 more than a 1LE and I'm still missing coolers and fenders wide enough for my front wheels. I just couldn't go GM after being a Blue Oval lifer.
Ignoring the ATP part, I agree with your post. Generally in the past the lower optioned Mustangs have been less expensive than similar Camaros. When I bought my 2011 GT, I think it was about $2,500 difference. At that time I didn't even consider a Camaro due to that price difference. I didn't care about SRA vs. IRS, just wanted the less expensive car.
So you're saying that Camaro 6 posters are willing to overlook the characteristics of the Mustang that are better than the Camaro and just talk about magazine performance numbers that the Camaro is slightly better on?
Interesting real world information. Thanks for the info.
Nah I would say it is more of forum vs forum. From my time being on both sites, you guys and the other guys have a rivalry. And so if someone comes over here and is anything but a diehard fan then you guys take your anger towards the other site out on people over here who have nothing to do with them. And they do the same exact thing. And everyone is a "troll" or "fanboy" and what have you. But that is forum talk these days. And it doesn't really matter because it's just that, forum talk.
This post actually makes two interesting points. First it confirms what I was saying wrt 2018 pricing. 2016 - 17, Camaro was pricked significantly higher than Mustang, but with the improvements made for 2018 Mustang (dual fuel, +15 hp, 10AT for those that want it) Mustangs are now pricing at or above comparable Camaros.
From a consumer point of view, ATP means zip. But that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist and that it is not measured. Vehicle program executives (Chief Engineers, Program Managers, Sales Executives) pay and bonuses are based at least in part on meeting ATP targets. The information is readily available to those willing to pay for subscriptions to the services that collect that data. When I was at GM, I had access to that data, so I know it exists. Now that I am retired from GM, I work for a company that collects that data and I see it first hand. From that I know that the general order amongst pony cars / muscle cars is Camaro > Mustang > Challenger / Charger. I also know that if you take the number of cars sold x ATP you get Total Gross Revenue contributed by each carline to the company’s bottom line. When you work the math for Camaro and Mustang, Mustang sells more cars, Camaro brings more ATP per car, and they are within spitting distance of each other for Total Gross Revenue. Just under $2B each to the Ford and GM bottom lines.
I would have thought the Challenger / Charger would be at the front, being that it's on the oldest platform. Is it because so many sold are base models? Or maybe I have no idea what ATP is..
I paid 40.6K for my 1LE, a bit over 44k OTD. No options other than the 1LE package. No rebates or anything. I couldn't buy until April, missed out on the 2k rebate they had for owning a foreign nameplate in March. It was the only dealer willing to move on 1LE pricing. Only other dealer with them on the lot wouldn't budge, even though they had one over the winter. Complete with cracked tires because they moved it around when it was too cold out...
ATP is Average Transaction Price. What the buyer actually paid for the car. The reasons for one car having a higher ATP than another car can be due a couple reasons...
That’s pretty consistent with what I see in the Detroit area. Dealers are helped here by the fact that so many people get Employee Discounts, Family Discounts, or Supplier Discounts and are therefore more willing to structure the deal off of MSRP and just apply their discounts. Conditions will of course be different in different areas of the country.Laststandard said:
Like I said (& what martinjlm missed), is that many Camaro 1LE cant afford a Mustang GT PP2 for the track... (these same people are "turn-key" forum racers, who spend zero tracking their cars)
I must be missing it. A Camaro 1LE costs $45k and has coolers out the wazoo. A 2017 Mustang GT PP cost less than that (don’t remember the numbers, but recall it being less). A 2018 Mustang GT PP2 costs $44,850 without the coolers that the 2018 Camaro SS 1LE has. Where’s the part where the 1LE buyer can’t afford the PP2 for track and why would they consider it over a car priced the same with lesser content? What am I missing?
So, in essence, someone looking for a track car will look at the two and figure that for about the same money, they can get a car that performs better on the track for longer and has a lot more content included in the base + performance option price. They might also consider that one manufacturer says “we’ve added coolers so you can run it on the track all day” and provides an explicitly stated track warranty, while the other manufacturer says “despite all the track oriented development we’ve done and the awesome track tires we put on it, it’s not a track car”. And they might consider that one of the cars has active exhaust, HUD, and Recaros included in the base cost and could if they wanted to, add some more money to get a PDR and decide it is the better value. But that buyer’s only reason for buying it is that they can’t afford the PP2 so they “downgrade” to a 1LE. Is that what I was missing?