BBQ Tick After Oil Change...

[Andy13186]

Right now the 10qts of used oil is sitting in a Sam's plastic 4 or 5 gallon plastic laundry bucket...Perfect size for draining the oil in the Mustang BTW. Looks normal in the bucket but if I can find something small and clear I will take a visual sample. Notes after the 10w-30 Mobile 1 oil change...engine is noisy and the tick is there. Poured in the 1 bottle of Ceratec and the engine sounds perfect. Weird how 300ml poured into nearly 9500ml's or 3% mix will make such a difference.

same result here and mine lasted past an oil change

apparently being in engine oil for extended time somehow works ceratec color out.

I drained mine just several hundred miles later and it was apparent oil had something weird in it as I was draining it.

I had the same results with the ceratec working perfectly for my tapping and even works past an oil change as seen in my video here




When I changed the oil I looked at the oil and it looked pretty much normal to me, even with 2 bottles of ceratec. I thought maybe my amsoil oil filter caught the ceratec but I cut that open and it looked normal and not clogged or anything. Ceratec is awesome for this problem and I am so happy it works.

Sponsored

 

[accel]

same result here and mine lasted past an oil change



I had the same results with the ceratec working perfectly for my tapping and even works past an oil change as seen in my video here




When I changed the oil I looked at the oil and it looked pretty much normal to me, even with 2 bottles of ceratec. I thought maybe my amsoil oil filter caught the ceratec but I cut that open and it looked normal and not clogged or anything. Ceratec is awesome for this problem and I am so happy it works.

barron64 says tick came back, so he had to add ceratec again in new oil.

I even remember a couple of cases when engine started ticking again with ceratec being still in the engine.

 

[Condor1970]

^^^ Proof that even the very best oil on the market won't make the tick go away. As I believe he was using 5w-30 Amsoil Signature.
One idea, is that the tick itself may be more oil related, and the reason Ceratec works, is because it changes the composition of the oil itself. This is why the tick usually comes back shortly or right after an oil change.
In my case, adding 1/2 bottle quieted the tick immensely, but was still there. Adding the rest of the bottle made it go away completely. Adding more, slowly changed the amount of noise heard.
I'm stilling waiting for Ford to explain exactly what the noise is.

I'm honestly not so sure it's piston slap or end clearance issues anymore. Nor valve slap. The noise is very singular, which means it must be coming from something where only one of that component exists in the engine.
I find it hard to believe that an engine with 8 cylinders, 4 cams, 32 valves, and multiple bearings only occurs in one place producing the exact same noise in thousands of engines.
So, I'm thinking it has to be something related to the oil pump, or on the end of the crankshaft itself from axial movement. Oil cavitation, etc. I just don't know.

 

[barron64]

^^^ Proof that even the very best oil on the market won't make the tick go away. As I believe he was using 5w-30 Amsoil Signature.
One idea, is that the tick itself may be more oil related, and the reason Ceratec works, is because it changes the composition of the oil itself. This is why the tick usually comes back shortly or right after an oil change.
In my case, adding 1/2 bottle quieted the tick immensely, but was still there. Adding the rest of the bottle made it go away completely. Adding more, slowly changed the amount of noise heard.
I'm stilling waiting for Ford to explain exactly what the noise is. I honestly don't think it's piston slap or end clearance anymore. Nor valve slap. The noise is very singular, which means it must be coming from something where only one of that component exists in the engine.
I find it hard to believe that an engine with 8 cylinders, 4 cams, 32 valves, and multiple bearings only occurs in one place producing the exact same noise in thousands of engines.
So, I'm thinking it has to be something related to the oil pump, or on the end of the crankshaft itself from axial movement. Oil cavitation, etc. I just don't know.

Condor...You are thinking exactly what I have been thinking. All the ticking from various owners cars, all sound exactly the same. Same thoughts on how the Ceratek works...The additive changes some property of the oil that greatly quietens these engines down. Not just the tick but quieter all together. Still amazes me how well this stuff works.
One thought I had was these gen 3 engines have electronically controlled oil pressure bypass and run minimal oil pressure under light loads. Stick your foot in it and the pressure jumps way up. Mine is only holding 15-17psi at hot idle. I wonder if this low pressure might be causing an issue with a lash adjuster at the far end of an oil gallery or maybe one of the timing chain tensioners may not be happy with this low idle pressure.

 

[Condor1970]

Condor...You are thinking exactly what I have been thinking. All the ticking from various owners cars, all sound exactly the same. Same thoughts on how the Ceratek works...The additive changes some property of the oil that greatly quietens these engines down. Not just the tick but quieter all together. Still amazes me how well this stuff works.
One thought I had was these gen 3 engines have electronically controlled oil pressure bypass and run minimal oil pressure under light loads. Stick your foot in it and the pressure jumps way up. Mine is only holding 15-17psi at hot idle. I wonder if this low pressure might be causing an issue with a lash adjuster at the far end of an oil gallery or maybe one of the timing chain tensioners may not be happy with this low idle pressure.

That could be the case. What makes me wonder though, is that as the oil ages and carbon deposits build up, the noise also subsides even without Ceratec. Something about additional particulates or contaminants causes a change in the oil, and makes the tick go away. If it was just aging oil with more carbon contamination, I am at a complete loss as to why it would cause a lash adjuster or chain tensioner to quiet itself. Unless it's lower viscosity form aging oil has some effect. Heck, you got me.

We need a "Shrug" emoji. I find need for that, more than any other lately.

 

[GT Pony]

It's got to be something mechanical that's affected by the oil anti-friction properties. Excessive rod side clearance is still the #1 suspect in my book based on evidence that guys with the BBQ tick did have rod side clearances out of spec. A new short block fixed the BBQ tick.

Of course now Ford says the BBQ tick (aka "typewriter tick") is normal because they know the engine won't blow-up from the ticking - it's just an annoying ticking noise. Guess Ford was tired of replacing short blocks, especially when some of the replacement short blocks also ticked.

 

[Jetnoise]

It's got to be something mechanical that's affected by the oil anti-friction properties. Excessive rod side clearance is still the #1 suspect in my book.........A new short block fixed the BBQ tick.

.....Guess Ford was tired of replacing short blocks, especially when some of the replacement short blocks also ticked.

Puzzling

 

[Condor1970]

It's got to be something mechanical that's affected by the oil anti-friction properties. Excessive rod side clearance is still the #1 suspect in my book based on evidence that guys with the BBQ tick did have rod side clearances out of spec. A new short block fixed the BBQ tick.

Of course now Ford says the BBQ tick (aka "typewriter tick") is normal because they know the engine won't blow-up from the ticking - it's just an annoying ticking noise. Guess Ford was tired of replacing short blocks, especially when some of the replacement short blocks also ticked.

That may be. What I can't figure, is why a new short block that has no tick, starts to tick shortly after. Also, the tick is always identical in a singular fashion. If you have 8 rod ends, I find it odd how only 1 big end out of 8 in the same place creates the exact same random tick every single time.
That's why I'm starting to think it has to do with oil flow around the end of the crankshaft, or maybe even the oil pump itself, causing some weird cavitation or something.
Then again, if the crankshaft forgings are all identically made on the same machine, then maybe that same spot has the same clearance issue for every single engine made. That could be plausible.

 

[Ghost50]

Did any of you guys have or currently seeing metal flakes in your catch cans or filters?

 

[Condor1970]

Did any of you guys have or currently seeing metal flakes in your catch cans or filters?

No, nothing out of the ordinary. My oil filter showed only a few flakes. And I mean only a "few" flakes the size of a flea. Like maybe 6 total. For a brand new engine with virtually no oil consumption, this noise must be something other than the result of mechanical damage.

 

[GT Pony]

... this noise must be something other than the result of mechanical damage.

This mechanical issue will not cause any wear or damage, only irritating ticking noises.

 

[Condor1970]

This mechanical issue will not cause any wear or damage, only irritating ticking noises.

I know we've talked about this before. If a car is new and silent, then developes a tick even before its first oil change, then some wear had to occur somewhere.

Your telling me, that of tens of thousands of engines, they have 8 big ends, yet only 1 ticks due to excessive clearance in every engine, in the exact same way? I don't buy that.
There should a lot of them with multiple ends ticking and making a lot more racket. Not just the singular ticking sound.

This sound is from only 1 singular common item found on every engine. Either crankshaft end play, the oil pump, or even the oil itself. I just don't buy the piston slap, end play, or valve train noise arguments anymore. They just don't make sense.

 

[GT Pony]

I know we've talked about this before. If a car is new and silent, then developes a tick even before its first oil change, then some wear had to occur somewhere.

Your telling me, that of tens of thousands of engines, they have 8 big ends, yet only 1 ticks due to excessive clearance in every engine, in the exact same way? I don't buy that.
There should a lot of them with multiple ends ticking and making a lot more racket. Not just the singular ticking sound.

This sound is from only 1 singular common item found on every engine. Either crankshaft end play, the oil pump, or even the oil itself. I just don't buy the piston slap, end play, or valve train noise arguments anymore. They just don't make sense.

The BBQ tick is random, so who knows if it's one component being random, or if it's 2, 3 or more components being random. Fact is, excessive rod side clearances have been found on ticking Coyote engines, so it's very suspect IMO. Also, before Ford released the "typewriter tick" bulletin, Ford use to say replace the short block to fix the BBQ tick/typewriter tick. They obviosly knew there was some mechanical issue causing the ticking. And apparently per the bulletin they don't think the ticking is detrimental to the engine longevity, so excessive rod side clearance could fit that bill - makes noise but doesn't cause any real wear or engine damage.

If it was oil cavitation in the bearings (like some have theorized), why doesn't every engine do it? There are literally multi millions of journal bearings spinning every day on the roads - all with similar design clearances. What slight mechanical differences would make one engine tick from oil cavitation, and not another?

Also, some guys have used Ceratec which silenced the ticking, then they changed oil and didn't use Ceratec and the engine was still tick free because the Ceratec probably left a good amount of anti-friction coating behind (as the maker claims). So it seems to point to being related to the friction level between parts. Oil goes through changes as miles are put on it, and that can vary by how the car is driven and what the oil formulation is. That's why the tick can come or go as the miles get put on the oil.

Also, when new oil is put in an engine, it typically strips away most of the anti-wear coating/layer that was left behind by the last oil run (Google it). That's my theory on why the tick may go away as oil is used (anti-wear layer builds up with use), and why the tick may reappear after an oil change (previous anti-wear layer stipped away from the new oil).

Regardless of all the theories, it's definately one strange issue.

 

[Condor1970]

Ok, I'll buy that, but only to a certain point. Reason being is that a lot of small blocks replaced also had no end clearances out of spec. Some also had some minor cylinder scoring. Does that mean it was piston slap? Nope.
And the sound is singular. Not multiple. Sure it may be one big end out of tolerance, but it never sounds like more than one. Even engines that have issues with bad valves or lifters will readily start exhibiting noise of more than one bad lifter. I find it hard to believe that out of thousands of out of telerance engines, they all only have one clearance issue that sounds identical.
It's also apparent that replacing the small blocks did not fix the noise. This almost leads me to believe it's an oil pump, or crank end play issue of some sort. When they replace small blocks, do they use the old oil pumps, or always install a new one? It could just inherent in the design as those parts wear in. Who knows?

 

[GT Pony]

Ok, I'll buy that, but only to a certain point. Reason being is that a lot of small blocks replaced also had no end clearances out of spec.

I don't recall seeing any reports back of what the rod and crank end clearances were on most of the short block replacements - it's hard data to come by. I do know a couple of the shops did measure the rod end clearances and reported to the car owner that they were out of max clearance spec. And yes, the ticking could also be excessive crankshaft end play, and I've never seen that measurement every reported here on any ticking engine tear down. What needed to be done with every short block that was replaced is to have all those measurements taken, recorded and reported to see if there was a solid correlation. Those clearance measurements should have also been measured and recorded on the new short blocks for comparison. If all the new short blocks measured within factory specs, and then still ticked, then that would be data pointing away from excessive clearances ... but we don't have any data like that to prove one way or the other.

Some also had some minor cylinder scoring. Does that mean it was piston slap? Nope.

Different issue from the BBQ/typewriter tick.

And the sound is singular. Not multiple. Sure it may be one big end out of tolerance, but it never sounds like more than one. Even engines that have issues with bad valves or lifters will readily start exhibiting noise of more than one bad lifter. I find it hard to believe that out of thousands of out of telerance engines, they all only have one clearance issue that sounds identical.

Like mentioned before, who knows what random ticking would sound like if it was 1, 2, or 3 big ends out of clearance spec without a baseline of exactly how they would sound compared to each other. The noise is random, so it's hard to say without careful experimentation how the ticking would differ depending on how may rods were out of spec.

It's also apparent that replacing the small blocks did not fix the noise. This almost leads me to believe it's an oil pump, or crank end play issue of some sort. When they replace small blocks, do they use the old oil pumps, or always install a new one? It could just inherent in the design as those parts wear in. Who knows?

If Ford had a manufacturing QA clearance problem with rods/crankshaft assemblies, then there's no guarantee that short blocks sitting in the warehouse are free from potentially having the same out of spec clearance issues. I believe new short blocks come with a new oil pump and a new oil pan.

Sponsored