2017 gt350 engine failure

[Zitrosounds]

The question is did you have a sudden loss of oil pressure?

Not indicated at least. Tech never mentioned oil preasure when they scanned the computer.

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[Forgedwheeler]

Most places change to billet or forged parts in most applications, not to powdered metal tech. This tells you something right there.
Also no where on God's green earth would porosity, especially in a thin walled part be good...no where, it severely weakens the part.

Not saying this type of part couldn't last but it's not ideal. Also, this may be just poor quality control on the manufacturer too.

Powdered metal parts can be very strong, but they are far less resistant to impact damage, as much as 50% less than hardened billet steel.
Ford uses these parts for cost reasons. Powdered metallurgy allows for net shape manufacturing with little or no machining required. It saves a lot of money.
However, if you shove a foreign object into that pump at high RPM, from another failed part in the engine, it will destroy the powdered gears instantly.
In my opinion, the pump failures are symptoms, not the cause. Ford never planned to have their pump survive foreign object damage.
Ferrari oil pumps use forged steel gears. A 458 pump costs over $1000.
A 458 Italia Ferrari engine cost more than an entire GT350R.
The Voodoo engine is an experiment for Ford. We are their guinea pigs.
My advice is to buy an extended warranty.

 

[Voodooo]

Powdered metal parts can be very strong, but they are far less resistant to impact damage, as much as 50% less than hardened billet steel.
Ford uses these parts for cost reasons. Powdered metallurgy allows for net shape manufacturing with little or no machining required. It saves a lot of money.
However, if you shove a foreign object into that pump at high RPM, from another failed part in the engine, it will destroy the powdered gears instantly.
In my opinion, the pump failures are symptoms, not the cause. Ford never planned to have their pump survive foreign object damage.
Ferrari oil pumps use forged steel gears. A 458 pump costs over $1000.
A 458 Italia Ferrari engine cost more than an entire GT350R.
The Voodoo engine is an experiment for Ford. We are their guinea pigs.
My advice is to buy an extended warranty.

I hate when people defend poor engineering choice. First of all we're not talking about a Ferrari. Second even if the oil pump did cost $1000 on the voodoo it's worth it to save a $30000.00 engine. Case in point, billet gears are not $1000 anyhow. For less than $500 billet gears can be had. When you figure ford could make or out source these for even less. The point it, you never skimp on a oil system. It's the heart of the engine. I agree it may or may not be the opg's that's failing, it could be another failed part that's made its way into the oil pump. But installing powdered metal opg's in "any engine" in my opinion its wrong. This so reminds me of the plastic or phenolic timing gears. Stupid.

 

[JN66]

I hate when people defend poor engineering choice. First of all we're not talking about a Ferrari. Second even if the oil pump did cost $1000 on the voodoo it's worth it to save a $30000.00 engine. Case in point, billet gears are not $1000 anyhow. For less than $500 billet gears can be had. When you figure ford could make or out source these for even less. The point it, you never skimp on a oil system. It's the heart of the engine. I agree it may or may not be the opg's that's failing, it could be another failed part that's made its way into the oil pump. But installing powdered metal opg's in "any engine" in my opinion its wrong. This so reminds me of the plastic or phenolic timing gears. Stupid.

How many hours of labour would a fella need to pay for to get a new OPG installed brother? I am not able to do it myself (lack of proper garage space and knowledge).

 

[Forgedwheeler]

Not defending Ford. Just stating a fact. Do the math with your numbers. Ford spends $50 on an oil pump. Your $500 pump is $450 more, times 10,000 cars. That's $4.5 million in extra cost. Ain't gonna happen unless they lose a lot of engines and find the pump is the cause. It's a business. You're emotionally involved. They are not.

 

[mustang1]

Powdered metal parts can be very strong, but they are far less resistant to impact damage, as much as 50% less than hardened billet steel. ...

My guess is its a lot less than 50% . You may be able to get a number, purchasing one of each gear and putting them in a press to get a PSI until crack or deform.

... First of all we're not talking about a Ferrari. Second even if the oil pump did cost $1000 on the voodoo it's worth it to save a $30000.00 engine. Case in point, billet gears are not $1000 anyhow. For less than $500 billet gears can be had. When you figure ford could make or out source these for even less. ...

The 4140 steel OPG can be had for $200. Ford's price might be half or a quarter of that, or even less.

...
My advice is to buy an extended warranty.

^

 

[Minn19]

Not defending Ford. Just stating a fact. Do the math with your numbers. Ford spends $50 on an oil pump. Your $500 pump is $450 more, times 10,000 cars. That's $4.5 million in extra cost. Ain't gonna happen unless they lose a lot of engines and find the pump is the cause. It's a business. You're emotionally involved. They are not.

When does the business case come in for pissed off customers that leave Ford over a blown engine? Especially when they read threads like this?

Emotional people are who buy cars like this. Non emotional people buy a Focus for MPG.

 

[Voodooo]

How many hours of labour would a fella need to pay for to get a new OPG installed brother? I am not able to do it myself (lack of proper garage space and knowledge).

Book time is 12 hours labor.

 

[Voodooo]

Not defending Ford. Just stating a fact. Do the math with your numbers. Ford spends $50 on an oil pump. Your $500 pump is $450 more, times 10,000 cars. That's $4.5 million in extra cost. Ain't gonna happen unless they lose a lot of engines and find the pump is the cause. It's a business. You're emotionally involved. They are not.

Oh I'm sorry you mean like the $30 hoses that can cause the same or more damage? You can say it would cost ford 4.5 million to make a proper OPG from tool steel but, it if you were to take $30000 engine x 150 vehicles the 4.5 million dollar loss is the same. 150 is not a unrealistic number.

 

[Voodooo]

My guess is its a lot less than 50% . You may be able to get a number, purchasing one of each gear and putting them in a press to get a PSI until crack or deform.



The 4140 steel OPG can be had for $200. Ford's price might be half or a quarter of that, or even less.



^

Exactly. That's why I said less than $500. You know ford could do it for a lot less.
Remember that 5.2 oil pump I bought? Guess what? I removed the opg's and the outer gear I dropped 4' from the floor and it fractured the metal. The second drop broke it in two. I realize this is not anything that gear will go through inside the housing, but it proves how weak the powdered metal is.

 

[Forgedwheeler]

Sheesh. Powdered metal is not the ideal material. But It has very high tensile strength and wear resistance but not impact resistance. It is not ductile, but brittle. You are focusing on the pump as the cause. I suspect Ford already knows the cause and also knows pump gears are not the issue. They are not going to tell us the cause.
By all means keep guessing. It makes for good forum entertainment

 

[Forgedwheeler]

Oh I'm sorry you mean like the $30 hoses that can cause the same or more damage? You can say it would cost ford 4.5 million to make a proper OPG from tool steel but, it if you were to take $30000 engine x 150 vehicles the 4.5 million dollar loss is the same. 150 is not a unrealistic number.

And the Voodoo doesn't cost Ford anywhere near $30k. More like $5k for a long block. If that.

 

[Forgedwheeler]

Ford issued the recall on the hoses because of a safety concern. One fire would cost them millions in bad publicity.

 

[Voodooo]

Ford issued the recall on the hoses because of a safety concern. One fire would cost them millions in bad publicity.

Yeah I received my letter in October. Still no hoses.
By the way. Do as you please.

Powdered metal DOES NOT have high tensile strength. Not sure where you get this thought from.

 

[Voodooo]

And the Voodoo doesn't cost Ford anywhere near $30k. More like $5k for a long block. If that.

That's my point. Nor would the gears cost them $500 or even $50 bucks.
You brought up the 4.5 million and 458 Ferrari. I'm making a point you can't seem to notice.

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