10R80 is no PDK

[shogun32]

Yet GM software is better, and it even has the feature where you can hold the left paddle to get the lowest available gear

And the f150;tune has a upper bound option and better behavior.
Fundamentally GM values good results far more than Ford's Mustang team in particular whose apparent threshold for "ship it" is very low. It's the same for magride.

I wonder if Mustang engineers are predominantly recent grads and therefore clueless about excellence, and once they graduate to f150 the adults smack them upside the head and say "that sh&t you pulled in Mustang doesn't cut it here".

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[DarthMalice]

As a matter of fact I did...

He said the U.S. Mustangs equipped with the coyote and a 10AT all have the same torque converter. The Euro specification received an optimized torque converter, along with the normal M1 transmission tuning to offset the lack of power.

But you probably won't believe me as you clearly can't listen to reason. And btw you still haven't found me a part number...

If that is true, then I guess Ford didn't learn a lesson from losing a lawsuit in Australia over this kind of stuff. The upgraded torque converter wasn't just mentioned on a YouTube video or in an off-hand remark at Carlisle by Owens...it is in black and white on the owners kit that I received from Ford in the US with my car. I am pretty sure it was also in black and white on dealer promotional materials that would have been in Ford showrooms in the US as they started to roll out/sell this car.

 

[Jstang23]

If that is true, then I guess Ford didn't learn a lesson from losing a lawsuit in Australia over this kind of stuff. The upgraded torque converter wasn't just mentioned on a YouTube video or in an off-hand remark at Carlisle by Owens...it is in black and white on the owners kit that I received from Ford in the US with my car. I am pretty sure it was also in black and white on dealer promotional materials that would have been in Ford showrooms in the US as they started to roll out/sell this car.

I’d be interested to see a picture of where it says that. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I have a Ford engineer telling me something different. But there’s always a chance he was wrong too. Would you mind posting a picture of that?

 

[DarthMalice]

 

[DarthMalice]

And here: https://cdn.dealereprocess.org/cdn/brochures/ford/2021-mustang.pdf. Look at the Mach 1 write up at the beginning.

Who's joining my class action? Lol.

 

[shogun32]

Who's joining my class action? Lol.

All marketing blather that has zero force of anything. Plus 3 years old and all such claims are routinely abandoned or overcome by events.

How can smart people be so dumb as to believe marketing?

 

[DarthMalice]

All marketing blather that has zero force of anything. Plus 3 years old and all such claims are routinely abandoned or overcome by events.

How can smart people be so dumb as to believe marketing?

I was kidding about a class action but marketing "blah" led to them losing a lawsuit in Australia specifically on brochure lies for the Mach 1.

There is marketing blah...like "most track capable 5.0 ever"; I am with you there. But advertising using an actual part on the car that isn't there is something different entirely. I am glad Australia penalized them for it. And if this upgraded converter isn't actually on the car, they should have been fined for that too...at least on the 21 model. If the 22 promotional materials dropped it and it wasn't on the later years...fine. How can a smart person not see how blatantly sleazy this is and defend it is more my question.

 

[shogun32]

I was kidding about a class action but marketing "blah" led to them losing a major lawsuit in Australia...look it up.

Yes I remember hearing about that but don't recall the particulars. Plus the Aussies are nuts. I believe the important part was it was the official brochure which is quaisay technical document, not a 3 page card tossed into the glove box.

 

[WD Pro]

Just bringing this back up :

@ChitownStang @Jstang23

Knowing how all companies / marketing departments can be creative, I wonder if there was a running change with the converter that coincided with the year change that the M1 landed.

i.e. they told us the truth, but conveniently omitted to tell us that other variants with the A10 also got the change.

Someone with access to various chassis numbers for both GT’s and M1’s might be able to confirm that one way or another.

A similar check on the euro variants could also be enlightening.

WD

Note that there are also questions over the toe link statement and what exactly that entails.

After reading the marketing statements, I wrongly 'assumed' they got the toe link bearing - but an M1 owner recently confirmed that's the standard rubber bush and that the toe link appeared visually identical to a GT (PP with the spherical), so who knows ... ?

WD

 

[DarthMalice]

Toe link from the GT500 is pretty straightforward. Same part on both cars. If at least the 21 Mach 1 didn't have that part (as well as the upgraded converter)...Ford should have been sued....full stop. Didn't they lose a class action over the GT350 due to the track marketing when people started having overheating issues on the 2016s? Ford is such a slimy company.

 

[Jstang23]

Toe link from the GT500 is pretty straightforward. Same part on both cars. If at least the 21 Mach 1 didn't have that part (as well as the upgraded converter)...Ford should have been sued....full stop. Didn't they lose a class action over the GT350 due to the track marketing when people started having overheating issues on the 2016s? Ford is such a slimy company.

Most Manufacturers are pretty slimy. Lets not forget about the whole VW diesel fiasco, lol.

 

[DarthMalice]

Yeah I don't care about that VW thing...that was them trying to mitigate the impact of the EPA/eco terrorist community. But screw around with performance parts, and we should all be pissed about that.

 

[GT 550]

Plus the Aussies are nuts.

Oi! We're nuts AND we won

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-relea...ading-consumers-about-mustang-mach-1-features


'...Mustang Mach 1 brochures falsely represented it had the following features, which it does not possess:

• Rear parking sensors
• LED fog lamps
• Mustang Mach 1 floor mats
• Ambient lighting in door pockets
• Torsen limited-slip differential'

And if we can do it with our useless consumer laws you guys can absolutely try it on.

 

[Garfy]

The 10R80 may be strong, but it is nowhere near as user friendly as a PDK. The PDK shifted in milliseconds, the 10R80 takes centuries to follow my command.

I tell the 10R80 to downshift, wait a second, tap down, wait a second, tap down, wait then B-A-N-G it shifts three at once feels like I hit a tree.

Ford's manual transmission has problems and their automatic also has problems. The ZF (6 speed manual) in my 335Xi is fun and willing to play. The PDK is a joy.

Why can't Ford and GM make a fun transmission?

That's odd. On my trans, if I tap the downshift paddle, it shifts fairly quickly, the problem is that it doesn't slow the car immediately because of the stupid "rev matching" protocol where it revs up the engine to match the speed and a second or two later it lets off the throttle then begins to slow it down. That's not good when I'm going down a steep hill and want to decel. I've hit the paddle 3 times quickly and the dash indicates "7" yet due to the rev matching, it doesn't begin to decel until a second or two later after the PCM lets off the throttle. I wish it didn't do the rev matching thing, then it would be like all my other automatic trans cars. BTW, I never have it "bang" into any lower gear (unless I suppose if I tap the paddle 5 times in a second).

 

[Garfy]

Agreed.

Guess you haven't tried the Powerglide or C4 tranny from the 50's and 60's.

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