Do you regret choosing your power adder?

[chuckhammer]

I think the term "heat soak" is insufficiently descriptive.

If I understand it correctly:
- Charge air temperature for air-to-air centris increases very quickly but also recovers quickly once boost subsides.
- Charge air temperature for air-to-water-to-air PDs increases very slowly but, once that water heats up, takes a while to cool back down.

Ford gave the 2020+ GT500 sufficient cooling to run flat out for 20-30 minutes' worth of laps on track even with the TVS2650 roots. Seems like it's possible to keep that intercooler water temperature under control even with repeated WOT usage over a long period of time.

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[Wolfys11]

Within 10 degrees for how long? I have logs from every single centrifugal available for these cars including the different intercooler options. Can a 680 wheel g3 car with g4 intercooler stay within 10 degrees of ambient for about 2 to 2.5 seconds on an actual log, sure. Most g3/g4 cars I still see a 40+ degree increase after a 9 second 1/4 mile.

I'm a supporter of centris on many applications, I have one on my own car.

For the log, it was a one gear pull for wengerd
As far as reading my temps real time, ive never seen past 20 above ambient, i usually am 10-15 during multi gear pulls

 

[cbrtrx]

I think the term "heat soak" is insufficiently descriptive.

If I understand it correctly:
- Charge air temperature for air-to-air centris increases very quickly but also recovers quickly once boost subsides.
- Charge air temperature for air-to-water-to-air PDs increases very slowly but, once that water heats up, takes a while to cool back down.

Ford gave the 2020+ GT500 sufficient cooling to run flat out for 20-30 minutes' worth of laps on track even with the TVS2650 roots. Seems like it's possible to keep that intercooler water temperature under control even with repeated WOT usage over a long period of time.

You are correct that centris heat up fast but also recover fairly fast where as the air to water setups dont rise as fast but do take longer to recover.

 

[Forestlump]

You've proven that you and wolfys11 have no idea how the whipple measures charge temp, but you agree on one thing....it's definitely wrong. Never mind that I have GT500 logs and @Exploded_Muffin muffin posted a GT500 log that agreed even though the GT500 intercooler is inferior to the GenV whipple. Never mind that I tested my sensor vs two independent sources and offered to supply the data to show its accurate. And never mind the procharger and multiple ESS (100mm and 125 mm) logs that were posted that also show the same rapid rise. All that is crap and the dashboard gauge of unknown source and no log is more reliable.

And to be clear, myself, exploded muffin, cbrtrx, 80foxcoupe, mejohn, and more, many of which own centrifs, will instantly know if your data is correct because we've all seen way too many data logs to be fooled by bad data. Logging the wrong IAT is very common and easy to spot once you've reviewed a few thousand logs.



This is very wrong. The boost temps at the outlet of the dual-pass counter-flow intercooler are very close to unison (though not inverted, for obvious reasons)...Roush notwithstanding.

No actually, I've proven that it's a completely different sensor! also hidden out of the airflow, it's going to be numb to instant temperature rise like a brief 10 second heating event!

It's not that centris rise and fall fast, it's that the temp sensor in the Maf, reading the full story is reacting faster than the whipples Mapt. The Mapt in the whipple is hiding in the corner of the plenum and not exposed to the airflow.

You are trying to suggest that the whipple is immune to a steep temperature rise and that's completely untrue! You are also saying that the data you are collecting from a numb sensor to be as accurate to randos from Maf and that ofcourse makes the whipple better, It's bullshit!

Your Data is pish mate! Just like you cant compare dynos from two different rolling roads and add in to that on different days yet you think you can from 2 different temp sensors, at different locations?

Yes a centris temp sensor is the Maf, located outside the plenum, but it reads mass air load (ie all of it, not hiding out on the edge like what o2 extenders do to lambda values) the Maf reads the centre of flow and before it goes in to a plastic manifold that by very nature is insulating from the 200f cylinder heads! something your Whipple manifold isn't!!!! so when the engines up to temp, guess what temperature your whole plenum/ rotor assembly is????? yes that's it +200f Then you tell us that by magic your iat are less than 70? give me a break!!! Even if you fitted some magic Insulating gasket and ceramic coated the whipple manifold, you'd still be way in to the 150's

A centri not only has a huge surface area of the intercooler with all that front end airflow but all the thin walled aluminium tubing that routes it's way all around the front of the car, plus the supercharger itself in view of the front grill before it goes in to an insulated plenum and manifold. Literally only the length the of the inlet port is at 200f on a centri, your whole bloody supercharger/ plenum (apart from the smallish cooler, that will be 20c above ambient) will be at almost cylinder head temperature because its bolted to them. It's the laws of thermo dynamics!

It matters nothing about your distorted log from the numb Mapt, it's crappy data that you've collected and to compare it to genuine data collected from a centris Maf is absurd!

If your fan club on here are anything to go by, you are a fart smeller but surly you can see there's holes in your argument!

 

[Forestlump]

For the log, it was a one gear pull for wengerd
As far as reading my temps real time, ive never seen past 20 above ambient, i usually am 10-15 during multi gear pulls

Yes and I can back that up, so much so that I've never had to log or even watch them, because it's just not an issue with a centri and all that cooling surface area that is intercooler/pipework around the front of the car.

 

[cbrtrx]

For the log, it was a one gear pull for wengerd
As far as reading my temps real time, ive never seen past 20 above ambient, i usually am 10-15 during multi gear pulls

A 120mm on a g3 with a g4 intercooler will still rise about 33/35 degrees on a 60 to 130 pull, if it was a g3 intercooler you can add about 7 degrees to that. I have about 400 centri datalogs. If you're seeing only 10 to 15 degree increases you're doing rather small pulls. I'm assuming you aren't reading the logs on your car and are just looking at the IAT on the cluster after you let off the gas. Intake temps start to recover fast when you let off so that is probably why you think it's not rising as high as it is. Just my assumption.

 

[Forestlump]

A 120mm on a g3 with a g4 intercooler will still rise about 33/35 degrees on a 60 to 130 pull, if it was a g3 intercooler you can add about 7 degrees to that. I have about 400 centri datalogs. If you're seeing only 10 to 15 degree increases you're doing rather small pulls. I'm assuming you aren't reading the logs on your car and are just looking at the IAT on the cluster after you let off the gas. Intake temps start to recover fast when you let off so that is probably why you think it's not rising as high as it is. Just my assumption.

Are you talking 35 Fahrenheit? as in about 17 degrees c?

Yeah I see about 10-15 ISH on a good hard few wot pulls, but in reality over the max of 20c ambient, that's not to be sniffed at.

 

[cbrtrx]

Are you talking 35 Fahrenheit? as in about 17 degrees c?

Yeah I see about 10-15 ISH on a good hard few wot pulls, but in reality over the max of 20c ambient, that's not to be sniffed at.

Yes Fahrenheit.

 

[shogun32]

Kinda weak to be crying i didnt give my log out

it was a joke! And more a commentary on the fact that you didn't have the data at the tip of your fingers to whip out.

 

[Wolfys11]

A 120mm on a g3 with a g4 intercooler will still rise about 33/35 degrees on a 60 to 130 pull, if it was a g3 intercooler you can add about 7 degrees to that. I have about 400 centri datalogs. If you're seeing only 10 to 15 degree increases you're doing rather small pulls. I'm assuming you aren't reading the logs on your car and are just looking at the IAT on the cluster after you let off the gas. Intake temps start to recover fast when you let off so that is probably why you think it's not rising as high as it is. Just my assumption.

Well of course nobody is doing a 60mph+ pull with this power and staring at the cluster, but yes im referencing my temps from the cluster, as i assume thats my maf reading which is quite literally the temp of compression post intercooled. Sure, the manifold can add some degrees, but im arguing the supercharger itself is MUCH more effecient that the pd, and i will argue its even better than turbos, because turbo vs centri we have the same exact intake housing, with the centri not having the exhaust flowing on the back of the housing

however i am talking about the moment after i do a pull, i dont see ever not even one time more than 20 deg farenheit on my setup, even in summer heat, and you cannot tell me that the 1 or MAYBE 2 seconds after if you want to stretch it, that my temps FLY from 30+ deg ambient down to basically ambient or a few degrees above, then yalls argument that water cooled is better is thrown out the window. Pick ya battles brothers

 

[Wolfys11]

it was a joke! And more a commentary on the fact that you didn't have the data at the tip of your fingers to whip out.

I know!

but i think a couple of the others are genuinly heated that i think centris are better for heat and air cooled is better if the intercooler is big enough, which is always fun to banter

after all, how else will we all learn the intricacies of our setups!

 

[Wolfys11]

No actually, I've proven that it's a completely different sensor! also hidden out of the airflow, it's going to be numb to instant temperature rise like a brief 10 second heating event!

It's not that centris rise and fall fast, it's that the temp sensor in the Maf, reading the full story is reacting faster than the whipples Mapt. The Mapt in the whipple is hiding in the corner of the plenum and not exposed to the airflow.

You are trying to suggest that the whipple is immune to a steep temperature rise and that's completely untrue! You are also saying that the data you are collecting from a numb sensor to be as accurate to randos from Maf and that ofcourse makes the whipple better, It's bullshit!

Your Data is pish mate! Just like you cant compare dynos from two different rolling roads and add in to that on different days yet you think you can from 2 different temp sensors, at different locations?

Yes a centris temp sensor is the Maf, located outside the plenum, but it reads mass air load (ie all of it, not hiding out on the edge like what o2 extenders do to lambda values) the Maf reads the centre of flow and before it goes in to a plastic manifold that by very nature is insulating from the 200f cylinder heads! something your Whipple manifold isn't!!!! so when the engines up to temp, guess what temperature your whole plenum/ rotor assembly is????? yes that's it +200f Then you tell us that by magic your iat are less than 70? give me a break!!! Even if you fitted some magic Insulating gasket and ceramic coated the whipple manifold, you'd still be way in to the 150's

A centri not only has a huge surface area of the intercooler with all that front end airflow but all the thin walled aluminium tubing that routes it's way all around the front of the car, plus the supercharger itself in view of the front grill before it goes in to an insulated plenum and manifold. Literally only the length the of the inlet port is at 200f on a centri, your whole bloody supercharger/ plenum (apart from the smallish cooler, that will be 20c above ambient) will be at almost cylinder head temperature because its bolted to them. It's the laws of thermo dynamics!

It matters nothing about your distorted log from the numb Mapt, it's crappy data that you've collected and to compare it to genuine data collected from a centris Maf is absurd!

If your fan club on here are anything to go by, you are a fart smeller but surly you can see there's holes in your argument!

Im with you on this one, if you guys use a different sensor and read off the rear of the manifold, when said sensor sits in the hot area between a hot block, and a hot pd supercharger, and expect me to believe you run 20 deg farenheit above ambient and then gain 10, you must be putting ice bags in the tank, on the supercharger, and throwing them inside the intake to make that type of temperature

 

[shogun32]

but yes im referencing my temps from the cluster

Do we know the frequency of that display? With a datalog we're reading (almost) every CAN bus poll/response, however many cycles per second that is.

 

[Wolfys11]

Do we know the frequency of that display? With a datalog we're reading (almost) every CAN bus poll/response, however many cycles per second that is.

I have no idea, as far as i can tell its fairly quick to respond, but it depends how fast is fast enough for you

all i know is ive never had a “heatsoak” event no matter how aggresive ive driven for no matter how long, even when the ambient temp was 95 deg farenheit

 

[cbrtrx]

Well of course nobody is doing a 60mph+ pull with this power and staring at the cluster, but yes im referencing my temps from the cluster, as i assume thats my maf reading which is quite literally the temp of compression post intercooled. Sure, the manifold can add some degrees, but im arguing the supercharger itself is MUCH more effecient that the pd, and i will argue its even better than turbos, because turbo vs centri we have the same exact intake housing, with the centri not having the exhaust flowing on the back of the housing

however i am talking about the moment after i do a pull, i dont see ever not even one time more than 20 deg farenheit on my setup, even in summer heat, and you cannot tell me that the 1 or MAYBE 2 seconds after if you want to stretch it, that my temps FLY from 30+ deg ambient down to basically ambient or a few degrees above, then yalls argument that water cooled is better is thrown out the window. Pick ya battles brothers

I'm not picking any battles with anyone I'm just stating facts from 21 years of experience tuning all types of power adders. I've been tuning the coyote engine since 2011 when it came out. I was just correcting some of the info you posted.

All kits have short comings as I said a while back. The reason ESS went to the g4 intercooler was because they needed to. The g3 intercooler consistently performed worse then all the other supercharger brands offerings. I have nothing against their product just stating facts from the data I have logged and compared.

One other thing you mentioned about turbos and intake temps, there's a lot to get into there and there are variables as well but I've seen quite a few turbo setups
with air to air have a good bit better charge temps then centris.

Again I'm not picking any sides I could care less what power adder someone runs, people buy what they like. I'm just stating what I've learned over the years.

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