Do you regret choosing your power adder?

[shogun32]

Just some rando posted log on the hpt site. 2015 mustang, procharger D1SC at 10 psi, air/air, 28 deg rise in 8 seconds at 59 deg ambient. All the air/airs act basically the same.

can we calc from these traces the BTU added to the incoming air charge and how much the IC was shedding per unit time? I guess we really need a thermo-couple on the IC to see how hot it actually got vs the air passing thru it.

The fact that post-run the air-air cools down so fast be more a function of the Centri exhaust is back down to approx ambient and the IC hadn't gotten all that hot (relative to the under boost air temp) in the first place, so it sheds quickly.

has anyone studied how the post-turbine/rotor temps compare between Centri and PD for constant PSI? Or how a water-based IC of the same size/construction/flow as a A-A differs in rate of BTU obsorption? I realize there's a dozen variables at least. But theoretical numbers should at least be instructive, no?

I imagine building an A-A IC that internally resembled a computer CPU cooler (with a mess of fingers in the air-stream) would be a bitch to build and probably too obstructive...

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[The Demon]

Crikey! Can we get a 17 page thread of why we you love your power adders. I’m going to add one in Florida and this just makes me think otherwise. Crikey!

 

[shogun32]

an we get a 17 page thread of why we you love your power adders. I’m going to add one in Florida

I think a wet/dry shop-vac would be the unit of choice down there.

 

[The Demon]

I think a wet/dry shop-vac would be the unit of choice down there.

At the moment yes, but not where I’m gonna be living.

 

[qwiknotch]

Thats totally not true, a base kit has a g2 with g2 intercooler, it makes 600 hp, MAYBE 650 on pump gas if you push hard. To go 700 whp you need a g3x or higher, with a g4 intercooler, basically max effort kit minus the g4 which is for built motor applications generally

a whipple lowest power is like what, 650-700 whp? Definitly worth said money, but to make similar power, costs end up a LOT closer than youd think

But like others said, centri for noise and a much easier time with traction,
Whipple for more power and down low torque

And of course turbos for all of the above except a shitty install and cost

I have the Vortech kit. Comes with a V3JT. Made 600 to the tires smog legal on 91. Same exact kit with a 3.30 pulley and E85 makes 845 to the tire. Didnt have to upgrade anything except the fuel system and put a smaller pulley on

 

[Wolfys11]

I have the Vortech kit. Comes with a V3JT. Made 600 to the tires smog legal on 91. Same exact kit with a 3.30 pulley and E85 makes 845 to the tire. Didnt have to upgrade anything except the fuel system and put a smaller pulley on

Yes e85 does work with boost well, but i was talking about pump gas setups on 93

 

[qwiknotch]

Yes e85 does work with boost well, but i was talking about pump gas setups on 93

Fair enough. I don't know anything about the ess kits, I wasn't sure if they were like the Vortech where the one blower is good up to around 900rwhp. Supposedly. I won't risk spinning mine any harder, doesn't seem worth it.
I live in the suck ass state of California where 91 is the best we get. With 91 and Torco Accelerator , it did make 700 with a 3.48 pulley, but I got sick of buying the cans or mixing with Vp100.

 

[Wolfys11]

Fair enough. I don't know anything about the ess kits, I wasn't sure if they were like the Vortech where the one blower is good up to around 900rwhp. Supposedly. I won't risk spinning mine any harder, doesn't seem worth it.
I live in the suck ass state of California where 91 is the best we get. With 91 and Torco Accelerator , it did make 700 with a 3.48 pulley, but I got sick of buying the cans or mixing with Vp100.

I hear ya with the mixing, its why i wont go e blends and just wait til i move to an area with e85

if you get a g3, they i think compare to the head unit you have

g2 i think is small, it can definitely make power but im not sure if it gets up to 900whp like a g3 will

its also about effeciencies, one blower may be able to go up there or down low, but sometimes its better to upsize or downsize for effeciency ranges

 

[qwiknotch]

I hear ya with the mixing, its why i wont go e blends and just wait til i move to an area with e85

if you get a g3, they i think compare to the head unit you have

g2 i think is small, it can definitely make power but im not sure if it gets up to 900whp like a g3 will

its also about effeciencies, one blower may be able to go up there or down low, but sometimes its better to upsize or downsize for effeciency ranges

I hear ya. when I first went E in 2019, there was like 2 stations near my house and I used to have to carry two 5 gal jugs in my trunk if I went on longer drives. lol Now, we have a manufacturer here called Pearson and there are hundreds of gas stations in Southern California with E. The only good thing about living here is the E is heavily regulated and it has never tested below 85, at least
for me

 

[shogun32]

The only good thing about living here is the E is heavily regulated and it has never tested below 85, at least

you don't have weather. So there is no need to alter the blend deal on the needs of the Emperor of the Republic. We call him Loathesom, I think.

 

[qwiknotch]

you don't have weather. So there is no need to alter the blend deal on the needs of the Emperor of the Republic. We call him Loathesom, I think.

He is such a twat.

 

[Wolfys11]

I hear ya. when I first went E in 2019, there was like 2 stations near my house and I used to have to carry two 5 gal jugs in my trunk if I went on longer drives. lol Now, we have a manufacturer here called Pearson and there are hundreds of gas stations in Southern California with E. The only good thing about living here is the E is heavily regulated and it has never tested below 85, at least
for me

That would be awesome to have around haha but maybe in a year or two i should have e85 going my way, well see

 

[NoCo302]

I have a Stage 1 Whipple on my 2013 Boss 302 and the Procharger HO kit on my 2022 Mach 1. I have to deal with emissions so chose off the shelf emissions compliant kits. I'm not looking for max power so both kits are very good. I will say the tune and customer service from Procharger is much better than Whipple at least in my experience. I prefer the instant torque with the Whipple so honestly it's a mixed bag. If I could do custom tunes and was looking for max power would probably go with the Whipple but for a lower power street car that will use the canned tune think Procharger is the better choice.

 

[Forestlump]

I presumed that the whipples iat was read from the Maf the same as the centri kits, not really thinking about it properly and so I believed what we were discussing was a fair comparison.

However, it's far from that.

The whipples iat is taken from a mapt sensor, not really in the airflow like the Maf. but hidden at the back of the plenum, almost shielded from the air flow so that's a huge difference in comparable readings.

It's also a completely different sensor so will have a different calibration. There's loads on this forum about the accuracy and refresh rate of whipples mapt sensor, look for yourself.

see the photo of the whipple gen 5, aluminium is a great conductor, there's nothing to stop the hot side of the supercharger core and engine from heating all of the walls of the plenum area and ports. Completely unlike a centri kit that using the naturally insulating plastic manifold.

So comparing iat on VCM scanner between centi and Whipple is far from accurate.

I haven't had chance to do a data log or collect data on the Paxton 2200sl, but I did 350 miles on the motorway yesterday with 10 seconds blasts and the iat on the dash (which is accurately displayed on a centri as read by the Maf) didnt ever go more than 6 degrees c, mostly 2 degrees while cruising above ambient of 13 degrees. And the temps displayed on dash from a centri setup are accurate, read by the Maf at a fast data rate and taken from the mid airflow position, post intercooler and not influenced like the whipples will be from hiding in the corner of the plenum. So Engineer mike, I think you can see for yourself that your collected data is shite and completely unreliable. But to be fair to you, very difficult to get accurate data from the whipples system so not your fault.

If it were me, I'd have a sensor on the coolant temperature for the charge cooler. Then add 10- 20 degrees c on top of that because it's scientifically impossible for your boost temps to be lower than the coolant temperature and in the order of atleast +20c. (unless you have a killer chiller attached to the A/c pump.
That's going to give you a clearer idea of what's really going in to the cylinder.

 

[80FoxCoupe]

I presumed that the whipples iat was read from the Maf the same as the centri kits, not really thinking about it properly and so I believed what we were discussing was a fair comparison.

However, it's far from that.

The whipples iat is taken from a mapt sensor, not really in the airflow like the Maf. but hidden at the back of the plenum, almost shielded from the air flow so that's a huge difference in comparable readings.

It's also a completely different sensor so will have a different calibration. There's loads on this forum about the accuracy and refresh rate of whipples mapt sensor, look for yourself.

see the photo of the whipple gen 5, aluminium is a great conductor, there's nothing to stop the hot side of the supercharger core and engine from heating all of the walls of the plenum area and ports. Completely unlike a centri kit that using the naturally insulating plastic manifold.

So comparing iat on VCM scanner between centi and Whipple is far from accurate.

I haven't had chance to do a data log or collect data on the Paxton 2200sl, but I did 350 miles on the motorway yesterday with 10 seconds blasts and the iat on the dash (which is accurately displayed on a centri as read by the Maf) didnt ever go more than 6 degrees c, mostly 2 degrees while cruising above ambient of 13 degrees. And the temps displayed on dash from a centri setup are accurate, read by the Maf at a fast data rate and taken from the mid airflow position, post intercooler and not influenced like the whipples will be from hiding in the corner of the plenum. So Engineer mike, I think you can see for yourself that your collected data is shite and completely unreliable. But to be fair to you, very difficult to get accurate data from the whipples system so not your fault.

If it were me, I'd have a sensor on the coolant temperature for the charge cooler. Then add 10- 20 degrees c on top of that because it's scientifically impossible for your boost temps to be lower than the coolant temperature and in the order of atleast +20c. (unless you have a killer chiller attached to the A/c pump.
That's going to give you a clearer idea of what's really going in to the cylinder.

Post your data log from your 10sec wide open throttle hit.

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