Mach 1 vs Camaro SS 1LE

[ChitownStang]

I don't think so but maybe the ZLE does. But a track day is all of $300 so the 5 grand I save buying Camaro is 10 track days and the tires needed to run them. And anyway Ford's "track days" by the sound of posts on here are VERY lame/tame and not worth anything as an instructive exercise.

I've never heard anything but great things from anyone who has attended.
$1700 value and opportunity to race Fords cars in the infield track at Charlotte motor speedway.

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[GreenS550]

Most of you guys are probably a lot younger than me, but I remember the muscle car days of the 60s. I was a bit younger but did have some Ford and one Mopar muscle car back when I was young.

The big 3 made some impressive stuff and each had their own favorites. Truthfully, GM came out with the canted valve engines: 396/454 that really made impressive power. So much that Ford finally realized that it was the future of pushrod engines. Moved to the 302 Boss, 351 C, and 429/460 engines just as the smog stuff started.

The end of that era. But today, Ford has the better engine in that their competitors just didn't want to make the investment. Ford is getting bigger displacement HP numbers with a smaller, more sophisticated engine. I really thought GM would make the investment. They did not and rely on very old pushrod technology to get it done. Then Ford actually picked up on MagneRide, which was a GM creation originally.

That is basically the difference in these last 20 years. Ford learned the best solution and GM did not. They continued making the Camaro with terrible visibility thinking that the performance (which is excellent) would win the day. But day in and day out you are sitting too low with too poor visibility for most, not all folks. Unfortunately they didn't know their customer very well.

 

[shogun32]

more sophisticated engine. I really thought GM would make the investment. They did not and rely on very old pushrod technology to get it done.

push rod is 'cheap as chips'. Ford is continually hamstrung (IMO) by their stupid initial choice of bore spacing. they could have fixed that with Coyote family but didn't. Now it doesn't matter because they'll just slap an EV on there as a power-adder and call it good enough.

GM's blackwing-series motor is the answer to the Coyote/Voodoo IMO even though it never got shipped. They too will just slap an EV motor on it and call it good enough.

Camaro went off the rails stylistically when they hired whatever the nut-ball firm back when that penned that ridiculous shape for Gen4. Gen5 was a very clear improvement but then they let their 'youthful' designers go even farther. And that's why we have the perception with Gen6.

There's a reason to let designers do their pencil drawings, then you smack them upside the head with a roll of newspaper and tell them to stop drawing Gundam on company time. The Euros in particular do a pretty good job at outward appearance and so too Kia after they hired him away from BMW. GM management should know better than to build what their designers put on paper.

 

[DEDXXXX]

There's a reason to let designers do their pencil drawings, then you smack them upside the head with a roll of newspaper and tell them to stop drawing Gundam on company time. The Euros in particular do a pretty good job at outward appearance and so too Kia after they hired him away from BMW. GM management should know better than to build what their designers put on paper.

I find it annoying to be driving around town and saying, hey that’s a decent car, then finding out it’s a Kia as I get closer. Honda hasn’t had a decent design in over 20 years. Every InfinitI after the G35 got worse. I loved the SRT, but it got stupid after the tacked on wide body (needed because the design only allows 9 inch rims, wth) why get a new one? Camaro design is a cartoon (no offense), similar new vette and caddy’s. I find the GT350 beautiful. Mazda is doing a great job. I wasn’t sure about the M1 at first, but I think it’s the right choice for me now.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Do any Camaro versions get a track day for free?

I bought a new ZL1 in March and received no free track days. But at least GM will honor the warranty if I decide to take it to the track.

The end of that era. But today, Ford has the better engine in that their competitors just didn't want to make the investment. Ford is getting bigger displacement HP numbers with a smaller, more sophisticated engine. I really thought GM would make the investment. They did not and rely on very old pushrod technology to get it done. Then Ford actually picked up on MagneRide, which was a GM creation originally.

That is basically the difference in these last 20 years. Ford learned the best solution and GM did not. They continued making the Camaro with terrible visibility thinking that the performance (which is excellent) would win the day. But day in and day out you are sitting too low with too poor visibility for most, not all folks. Unfortunately they didn't know their customer very well.

The Gen 3 Coyote is an awesome engine and loved it in my 2018 GT PP1. But the LT1 is no slouch. The two engines make similar hp numbers with similar fuel consumption with different approaches. And no, the Coyote is not "smaller" than the LT1. Sure, it has less displacement, but have you seen the heads? They make the Coyote wider than an LT1 by several inches. Ha.

Camaro went off the rails stylistically when they hired whatever the nut-ball firm back when that penned that ridiculous shape for Gen4. Gen5 was a very clear improvement but then they let their 'youthful' designers go even farther. And that's why we have the perception with Gen6.

There's a reason to let designers do their pencil drawings, then you smack them upside the head with a roll of newspaper and tell them to stop drawing Gundam on company time. The Euros in particular do a pretty good job at outward appearance and so too Kia after they hired him away from BMW. GM management should know better than to build what their designers put on paper.

I liked the Gen 4 Firebird Trans Am (I had a '95 w/ ~400 crank hp and M6) better than the similar Gen 4 Camaro Z28, but I did like the Camaro as well. A friend had a 1999 Camaro SS that looked clean. The Gen 3 Camaro looked way better than the Fox body Mustangs, IMO.

And regarding BMW...you have seen the front end of the new M3/M4, right? Ha!

 

[martinjlm]

I bought a new ZL1 in March and received no free track days. But at least GM will honor the warranty if I decide to take it to the track.



The Gen 3 Coyote is an awesome engine and loved it in my 2018 GT PP1. But the LT1 is no slouch. The two engines make similar hp numbers with similar fuel consumption with different approaches. And no, the Coyote is not "smaller" than the LT1. Sure, it has less displacement, but have you seen the heads? They make the Coyote wider than an LT1 by several inches. Ha.



I liked the Gen 4 Firebird Trans Am (I had a '95 w/ ~400 crank hp and M6) better than the similar Gen 4 Camaro Z28, but I did like the Camaro as well. A friend had a 1999 Camaro SS that looked clean. The Gen 3 Camaro looked way better than the Fox body Mustangs, IMO.

And regarding BMW...you have seen the front end of the new M3/M4, right? Ha!

I think sometimes people forget that displacement is the size of the holes not the size of the metal. Just by the basis of the design differences, OHC engines are larger and heavier than OHV engines of the same displacement. Given the displacement of the LT1 (6.2L) and the Coyote (5.0) it’s not surprising that they are about the same physical size, mass and output. One is taller and wider, the other is longer (I think).

 

[13GetThere]

I found this to be an interesting video. It doesn't settle any arguments, but it is informative.

In case it was passed over for those discussing the engines.

 

[tofo17]

In case it was passed over for those discussing the engines.

One of my reasons for going with the Mach 1 and the Coyote is its high revving nature. Something about a high revving V8 that I love compared to a more lazy torquey V8. The Voodoo is obviously the king of revs and sounds epic...

 

[ChitownStang]

One of my reasons for going with the Mach 1 and the Coyote is its high revving nature. Something about a high revving V8 that I love compared to a more lazy torquey V8. The Voodoo is obviously the king of revs and sounds epic...

Where are you at in Chicago ToFo17?
And when do you get your Mach?

 

[tofo17]

Where are you at in Chicago ToFo17?
And when do you get your Mach?

Lake View East, what about you?
I don't get my Mach 1 until December... when I move back to Australia and pick it up! One of the reasons a GT 350 is out of the question is they were never sold in Australia.

 

[DrZed]

I bought a new ZL1 in March and received no free track days. But at least GM will honor the warranty if I decide to take it to the track.



The Gen 3 Coyote is an awesome engine and loved it in my 2018 GT PP1. But the LT1 is no slouch. The two engines make similar hp numbers with similar fuel consumption with different approaches. And no, the Coyote is not "smaller" than the LT1. Sure, it has less displacement, but have you seen the heads? They make the Coyote wider than an LT1 by several inches. Ha.



I liked the Gen 4 Firebird Trans Am (I had a '95 w/ ~400 crank hp and M6) better than the similar Gen 4 Camaro Z28, but I did like the Camaro as well. A friend had a 1999 Camaro SS that looked clean. The Gen 3 Camaro looked way better than the Fox body Mustangs, IMO.

And regarding BMW...you have seen the front end of the new M3/M4, right? Ha!

Idaho... same... exact experience, mods and HP (94 LT1 M6... mild heads, cam, mid length, 340 RWHP). Agreed to the LT1 comments (... well the "new" LT1 that is).

 

[13GetThere]

Oh I read some bad news the other day. It seems that Chevy has sold less 3,000 Camaro's so far this year, and the Camaro is probably going to be on the chopping block. Seems like the Challenger has the most sales with the Mustang in close second with over 90% of the muscle car market in sales for both of them. With 2 bad years in sales for the Camaro, I fear the worst.
Of course part of the problem has been the availability of cars. First due to the Covid and the other the availability of parts (chips) that are going to more popular vehicles, according to the article.
I read this article on a day where I had seen more SS Camaros in one day than I usually see in a month. I was beginning to think people had read this thread and figured out that the Camaro was a good muscle car value and started to buy. Then I found that article.
This all really disturbs me because I like choice and competition and the Camaro has been a big part of the competition in the muscle/pony car market.
Hell, if all the Mustang has to compete against is the Challenger, i could wind up being another T-bird.

 

[shogun32]

I see about 70% as many G5/G6 Camaros around these parts as S550s, so hardly rare or in keeping with the sales disadvantage. Mary-had-a-lambchop will probably try to do something stupid, but 2023 or so we'll know for sure.

Just think, a C6 Camaro will rapidly appreciate in price and make those GT350 guys green with envy.

 

[JetGray_Mach1]

Well that proves it. May as well close down all the racing tracks and turn them all into golf courses because it's been proven that the Camaro is better than the Mustang in every way so they may as well not show up for the race.
I'm so demoralized that I'm going to sell my Mustang GT PP2 to my grandmother because she likes slow cars, and use the money to buy bus tickets. I could get anywhere I wanted to go faster on a bus than driving a Mustang.
I mean the PP2 was 1.27 seconds slower than the SS/1LE on THAT track, and the Magazine said the Mustang was like 3.2 days slower than the Camaro. It's probably slower than that, but they gave up waiting for it to cross the finish line.
And we all know that watching any car race where Camaros and Mustangs are racing are going to be boring because the Camaro is going to win every time.
Now if you all will excuse me, I'm going to go beat my head against the dumb ass wall then call my grandmother, and hope I don't come out in the hole.
After all, we all know that racing has nothing to do with the driver. It's all about the car.

I hate these guys, they always talk smack. Their reviews are garbage.

 

[Atlas1]

I see about 70% as many G5/G6 Camaros around these parts as S550s, so hardly rare or in keeping with the sales disadvantage. Mary-had-a-lambchop will probably try to do something stupid, but 2023 or so we'll know for sure.

Just think, a C6 Camaro will rapidly appreciate in price and make those GT350 guys green with envy.

I think you’ve posted about this before but I hope they keep it going and focus on a redesign where the hip line I think you called it is lowered. Give it larger windows and better visibility. Make it not quite so bold styling wise and I’ll buy one. Hell give me the camaro chassis with a mustang body on it I don’t care. I just can’t get over how when I sit in it the side windows are about 6” tall. It’s ridiculous and a shame that styling is taking away from what is otherwise an excellent car

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