2020 GT500 results from Car and Driver Lightning Lap 2021

[Epiphany]

Ford exists to sell cars and create profit. We should all appreciate that they as a mass market manufacturer even make stuff like this instead of bitching about it like a teenager.

That's an interesting and somewhat infantile view but I like kids, so fine.

Bitching? Interesting and somewhat of an emotional response to a pretty dry subject matter. But that's ok because I like women and understand what it is rooted in.

I suppose my point is this. Ford is continually late to the game when it comes to the performance we seek. Not necessarily a bad thing mind you but the candle is growing dim. And they err on the side of caution whereas GM always seems poised to let it all hang out. If you are going to charge north of 100k, you better bring home the bacon. In this case, Ford loaded the shopping bag up with bon bons and a side of extra fat to boot. They had a version which didn't make the cut, along the lines of the list I laid out. Sadly, Raj and Jamal left, Pericak made a lateral move, and for a short time we had a CEO that was focused more on connectivity and "community" than cutting edge performance that wasn't green. So the CFTP got watered down and stayed bloated, as did the price. If total performance is what you sought in the past, it isn't around in 2020+ in the top dog.

Don't get me wrong, the CFTP is a nice car. But it isn't the performer it could have been. And in the context of the ZLE, it hurts to know that Ford could have really kicked it in the nuts but instead chose the lazy boy approach.

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[MaskedRacerX]

The CFTP car should have been more about performance and less about luxury.

I said way back when the specs were finally revealed, they should've had two, more diverse vehicles, with the first having more [discrete] options that weren't rolled up into some kind of unobtainable package.

GT500
Option 1: Track Package (big wing [maybe CFTP-like], lighter wheels, canards, adj. top mounts)
Option 2: Carbon Track package, same as above, just CF

Plus other existing options like the Tech Package, stripes (just skip the painted stripes).

This is a DD designed car, with Magneride, a back seat, it can be optioned to be more track capable, but it retains the street focus.

And FFS, make plenty, and make the options just a checkbox, not some special dealer allocation.

The above would more or less be the two cars we have now, a base, or a base plus more track spec aero (but also in a more affordable material, i.e., option 1).

Then make this:

GT500R
Option 2 standard
No rear seat
Lighter component / removed weight via seats, battery, no sounds dampening
Option for no electronics / AC (see Porsche ...)
MM suspension / more adjustability
Factory mount points for roll cage

Don't make the GT500R a "collectors" car, make it an extreme enthusiasts car, and by that, I mean, make it only desirable to a specific few BUT don't make it some kind of limited availability (or offer special colors or special stripes, etc.) so people won't pursue them to look cool at the C&C.

GM got this really right, you can buy ZL1 1LEs all day, because they're not rare due to desire/production, they're rare because they're for a smaller group of buyers.

 

[BlueHPP]

Lost in all the GT500/ZL1 1LE banter is the fact that the 2.3L Mustang was only only 2 tenths of a second behind the 2013 Boss 302 Laguna Seca. Crazy.

Another interesting thing is the 2.3 ecoboost Mustang beat the 2.0 L Supra by 5.6 seconds after losing a comparison test earlier this year. So much for the better sports car. And only 1.2 seconds behind the BMW M340 at less than 2/3 the price.

 

[kilobravo]

which most analysts place Mustang at zero value to Ford

This may be part of the reason...I was talking with my 30-year old nephew the other day and we got on the subject of him previously wanting a GT and ended up getting one of the stretched Mini Coopers..(ugh) Anyway, in the conversation he mentioned that one of the reasons he didn't buy the Mustang was because of peer pressure. Apparently, to many young folks, if you're not driving a Prius, you have no testicles. Talk about sad but it fits with the analysts opinion.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Apparently, to many young folks, if you're not driving a Prius, you have no testicles.

I'll have you know, I have no testicles because of that Barracuda attack ...

 

[503rwhp]

That's an interesting and somewhat infantile view but I like kids, so fine.

Bitching? Interesting and somewhat of an emotional response to a pretty dry subject matter. But that's ok because I like women and understand what it is rooted in.

I suppose my point is this. Ford is continually late to the game when it comes to the performance we seek. Not necessarily a bad thing mind you but the candle is growing dim. And they err on the side of caution whereas GM always seems poised to let it all hang out. If you are going to charge north of 100k, you better bring home the bacon. In this case, Ford loaded the shopping bag up with bon bons and a side of extra fat to boot. They had a version which didn't make the cut, along the lines of the list I laid out. Sadly, Raj and Jamal left, Pericak made a lateral move, and for a short time we had a CEO that was focused more on connectivity and "community" than cutting edge performance that wasn't green. So the CFTP got watered down and stayed bloated, as did the price. If total performance is what you sought in the past, it isn't around in 2020+ in the top dog.

Don't get me wrong, the CFTP is a nice car. But it isn't the performer it could have been. And in the context of the ZLE, it hurts to know that Ford could have really kicked it in the nuts but instead chose the lazy boy approach.

It’s faster than a Camaro. Not sure where else to compare. It’s still not a profitable market outside of Porsche 911 GT level prices. If it were, you’d see saturation and there isn’t. The value is all in the exclusive sale and therefore has no scalability. Given pricing histories, short and midterm collectibility valuations are bad and very few people (myself included ) who can afford a Gt500 want one that drives like dogshit given it is a poor investment outside of driving it for pleasure.
I respect but disagree with your opinion; I would not want a GT500 that wasn’t enjoyable to drive. These are cars, not art. They have one purpose. Ford’s job is to thread an impossible needle and make everyone happy while making profit and not getting a black eye in the investor community.
No matter what I or you think of the effort, they have a difficult job . I appreciate them undertaking it.

 

[503rwhp]

I suppose my point is this. Ford is continually late to the game when it comes to the performance we seek. Not necessarily a bad thing mind you but the candle is growing dim. And they err on the side of caution whereas GM always seems poised to let it all hang out. If you are going to charge north of 100k, you better bring home the bacon. In this case, Ford loaded the shopping bag up with bon bons and a side of extra fat to boot. They had a version which didn't make the cut, along the lines of the list I laid out. Sadly, Raj and Jamal left, Pericak made a lateral move, and for a short time we had a CEO that was focused more on connectivity and "community" than cutting edge performance that wasn't green. So the CFTP got watered down and stayed bloated, as did the price. If total performance is what you sought in the past, it isn't around in 2020+ in the top dog.

As a side note; I’ve driven Camaros. I believe they are terrible cars for driving daily. Obviously you disagree or agree but don’t care. Honestly, I don’t care which it is. It’s fine.
The ZL1 has never impressed me at all. Whether I’m more or less in tune with the buyers of these cars is irrelevant. Ford makes these decisions and we as consumers have choices. Buyers vote with dollars and not words. If you believe in GM, buy their stock. It makes
No difference to anyone but you really.
BR

 

[Epiphany]

I said way back when the specs were finally revealed, they should've had two, more diverse vehicles, with the first having more [discrete] options that weren't rolled up into some kind of unobtainable package.

Don't make the GT500R a "collectors" car, make it an extreme enthusiasts car, and by that, I mean, make it only desirable to a specific few BUT don't make it some kind of limited availability (or offer special colors or special stripes, etc.) so people won't pursue them to look cool at the C&C.

GM got this really right, you can buy ZL1 1LEs all day, because they're not rare due to desire/production, they're rare because they're for a smaller group of buyers.

You nailed every point. Major kudos.

Apparently, to many young folks, if you're not driving a Prius, you have no testicles.

And to many older folks, if you are driving a Prius you have no testicles.

So, Prius or no Prius?

It’s faster than a Camaro.

I respect but disagree with your opinion; I would not want a GT500 that wasn’t enjoyable to drive. These are cars, not art. They have one purpose. Ford’s job is to thread an impossible needle and make everyone happy while making profit and not getting a black eye in the investor community.
No matter what I or you think of the effort, they have a difficult job . I appreciate them undertaking it.

Fractions of a second faster for the monies necessary to obtain one...the choice then becomes very subjective. Have a go with a ZLE on the track and you'll quickly realize there may as well be no difference between the two in terms of performance.

I don't want a GT500 that is soft for the sake of catering to everyone such that performance wanes.

"These are cars, not art" - my point exactly and thanks for that. This is about performance and not simply a beauty contest. You then say they have "one purpose" and then imply that Ford is trying to make everyone happy (along with it being impossible). Again, exactly my point. When you mush it up, you water down its potential for the sake of trying to appease everyone. That's why I said earlier that GM will do what Ford won't and as such the ZLE becomes a much better performance value. Ford can engineer a great car but everyone's definition of great is different. So take a stand (much like choosing a DCT only powertrain) run with it and don't look back. But for the coin, it better be all out if you are gonna try to claim top dog status.

As a side note; I’ve driven Camaros. I believe they are terrible cars for driving daily. Obviously you disagree or agree but don’t care. Honestly, I don’t care which it is.

I "agree or disagree but don't care." Now that is baffling.

I have driven them and tracked them and was rather impressed with the platform. Regardless, I'm not a fan of the design and have no interest in ever purchasing one. I am jealous of how easy it is to purchase one though in comparison.

The ZL1 has never impressed me at all. Whether I’m more or less in tune with the buyers of these cars is irrelevant. Ford makes these decisions and we as consumers have choices. Buyers vote with dollars and not words. If you believe in GM, buy their stock. It makes
No difference to anyone but you really.
BR

I have no interest in stock in this regard as I'm discussing specific vehicular performance. How Wall Street is associated in that regard has zero relevance to me.

Having tracked with ZL1's I can say they impressed the shit out of me. I wish Ford engineers would have been given the same opportunity with the chassis and suspension along with the car not being marketed in the way it has been, as mentioned up above.

 

[503rwhp]

[QUOTE="Epiphany, post: 3151005, member: 19066"

How Wall Street is associated in that regard has zero relevance to me.
[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, this is why your opinion is irrelevant. Ford exists to make its owners money. Including me but mostly the Ford family. Your opinion exists to the owners of Ford as a barometer and nothing else.

 

[Tomster]

It’s faster than a Camaro. Not sure where else to compare. It’s still not a profitable market outside of Porsche 911 GT level prices. If it were, you’d see saturation and there isn’t. The value is all in the exclusive sale and therefore has no scalability. Given pricing histories, short and midterm collectibility valuations are bad and very few people (myself included ) who can afford a Gt500 want one that drives like dogshit given it is a poor investment outside of driving it for pleasure.
I respect but disagree with your opinion; I would not want a GT500 that wasn’t enjoyable to drive. These are cars, not art. They have one purpose. Ford’s job is to thread an impossible needle and make everyone happy while making profit and not getting a black eye in the investor community.
No matter what I or you think of the effort, they have a difficult job . I appreciate them undertaking it.

I'll throw my 2 cents in..... its not art, but supposedly a purpose built track car that could have been better. The CFTP version is as much of an equivalent as an R is in the GT350. The car was designed to be track focused. I too get a kick out of the types that buy it to have it and want to throw a back seat to haul the kids to soccer practice.

I just ran the CFTP not too long ago at one of the fastest speedways in the country. I ran impressive times and what would have allowed me to run faster times would have been weight reduction and engineering. Ford fell short.

If anyone wants the rug rat cruiser, get the less track focused version. I think its wrong that the track focused version happens to be the most desirable for reasons other than the track. This unfortunately drives the market where the biggest ADMs are put on a track car where most wont see the track.

Have a look at my "50 miles to empty" thread. This is what the CFTP or any R varient is all about.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/50-miles-to-empty.154462/

 

[FASTCARS]

A question, if you want a race car then why wouldn’t you build your own race car?

Instead of bitching about why GM or Ford didn’t build you a race car. You knew what you were buying when you bought it.

 

[Tomster]

A question, if you want a race car then why wouldn’t you build your own race car?

Instead of bitching about why GM or Ford didn’t build you a race car. You knew what you were buying when you bought it.

A dedicated race car isnt within the realm of this discussion.

 

[FASTCARS]

Many of you treat them like they’re your race car.

 

[Tomster]

Many of you treat them like they’re your race car.

They are an "out of the box OEM solution" of which a level of performance is measured. Therin lies the competition between brand X or Y. Once you deviate to the point that you are building a dedicated race car, stock and OEM go out the window. You shouldnt bring that argument to the table.

 

[Alex.Envy]

That was a lot to read...

Ford made a production track car, it's nice and comfortable but not some crazy shit you couldn't daily drive. Easy to swap front brakes with a 350 and gut it, the DCT is amazing and be even quicker but I feel like the majority of 500 owners are people who might drive it 2000-3000 miles a year then garage it lol.

IDK why it's being compared to a corvette when the direct competitor is the ZLE.

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