DroopyGT350

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This is true. Based on a number of similar threads, a rather disturbing number of GT350's get more than just lap times - lengthy staycations at a nearby Ford dealer. Every time I check into the GT350 forums I see threads like these...

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/new-2020-gt350-hep-engine-failure.152495/

I don't want to see these types of failures but yet there they are.
my 2019 motor seems way more reliable so far and doesn’t eat any oil. It’s the A/C compressor that’s failed for the third time in a year that’s pissing me off.





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Hack

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Yeah, describing one car that's $50k+ more than the other, I'm not sure this is bragging, in fact it speaks to the poor value of the 500 TP. Did Ford do a great job? Sure, is it at a price point that makes it a great value? No. Offer the car for mid 80's and that calculus changes, but for $105k+ I would expect it to not just take the R's lunch money, but it's girlfriend, future income and force all it's children to work for it for free.
For the first 3+ years of sales the GT350R was not going for MSRP. Not even close. The price of the GT500 represents Ford taking more of that difference rather than gifting it to the dealers. I think you are wrong about the value of the GT500. If it didn't have that value it wouldn't be selling. But the GT500 is selling with no problems. Other competitive cars that some say have better value are not selling well and certainly are not going with ADMs, despite having lower MSRP. So is the ZL1 1LE a good value or is it just appropriately priced for what it is? It makes a good number on track and gives bragging rights but the reality of owning and driving one just doesn't measure up. That's my conclusion based on what I know about how the package is selling vs. how the GT500 is selling, all of the reviews I've seen, etc.

Blame GM for that. Also, tire is not going to make up 4 seconds when performing at this level. For context, the GT350, that is 1 second faster is on Michelin PS4S too. So there's that.

I'm just tired of the C8 Z51 vs GT500 comparisons. No doubt the Z06 and ZR1 will likely be faster, but comparing a non-performance tier Corvette to a GT500 needs to stop. It's silly.
So you are saying the CORVETTE with the Z51 PERFORMANCE PACKAGE (named thusly by GM) is a NON-PERFORMANCE TIER CAR? That is laughable. I understand you want to be an apologist for the relatively poor performance of a car that traditionally was a better performance car than the Mustang, but give me a break. Is the Corvette an American sports car or not? It has an all-aluminum chassis, mid-engine configuration, a DCT and a large displacement V8 engine. It's designed specifically as a 2 seat vehicle to a high entry cost. Roughly double the cost of an entry Mustang. And it has the performance package on it. With the Z51 it's not the BASE Corvette (as Jonny Lieberman laughably said). It is set up for track performance. Z51 is the option you buy so your Corvette will perform on track.

Just say it - GM did a crappy job with the C8 Z51. So crappy that people want to pretend that the C8 Z51 either doesn't exist or is only good for cruising to Cars and Coffee.
 

Rinzler

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So you are saying the CORVETTE with the Z51 PERFORMANCE PACKAGE (named thusly by GM) is a NON-PERFORMANCE TIER CAR? That is laughable. I understand you want to be an apologist for the relatively poor performance of a car that traditionally was a better performance car than the Mustang, but give me a break. Is the Corvette an American sports car or not? It has an all-aluminum chassis, mid-engine configuration, a DCT and a large displacement V8 engine. It's designed specifically as a 2 seat vehicle to a high entry cost. Roughly double the cost of an entry Mustang. And it has the performance package on it. With the Z51 it's not the BASE Corvette (as Jonny Lieberman laughably said). It is set up for track performance. Z51 is the option you buy so your Corvette will perform on track.

Just say it - GM did a crappy job with the C8 Z51. So crappy that people want to pretend that the C8 Z51 either doesn't exist or is only good for cruising to Cars and Coffee.
In what universe did you get that I was an apologist for the Corvette? That's a weird conclusion man. Change your meds, man.

I will say that I've never driven a C8, but from the reviews I watch, it's pretty competent on the track. The Z06 and ZR1s WILL be faster than the GT500, I'm pretty certain. What I meant by "performance tier" was the Z06/ZR1 cars, like the GT350/GT500 are performance tier Mustangs. If we want to be nit picky, then Ford has a lot to answer for, for the PP1 Mustang GTs cause we Mustang guys love to argue that just cause it's a PP1 Mustang, doesn't make it a "track car".

At the end of the day, all it means is that the GT500 punches well above it's weight AND has outclassed is actual main competitor, the Camaro Zl1 1LE.
 

Hack

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In what universe did you get that I was an apologist for the Corvette? That's a weird conclusion man. Change your meds, man.
That's funny. I was just basing my universe on the words you wrote. And I'll stick with my doctor's recommendations, thank you very much.

I will say that I've never driven a C8, but from the reviews I watch, it's pretty competent on the track. The Z06 and ZR1s WILL be faster than the GT500, I'm pretty certain. What I meant by "performance tier" was the Z06/ZR1 cars, like the GT350/GT500 are performance tier Mustangs. If we want to be nit picky, then Ford has a lot to answer for, for the PP1 Mustang GTs cause we Mustang guys love to argue that just cause it's a PP1 Mustang, doesn't make it a "track car".
So right after you say your not an apologist for the Corvette, you write the next paragraph full of statements apologizing for the Corvette. Huh. Well ok then.

I agree the Corvette with the $5,000 Z51 Performance Package that was tested is pretty competent on track. Not as competent as some versions of the Mustang, but pretty competent.

I can understand you really love Corvette, so you want to talk about versions of it that don't exist so you can say it beats the Mustang. However, truly those versions do not exist yet. Mentioning them is just a way to apologize for the Corvette's performance - or lack thereof.

Yes the PP1 Mustang at a much lower cost than the Z51 Corvette isn't as good on track as the Corvette. The PP1 in my opinion isn't even really set up for track duty. For running on track in a Mustang you have to go to the GT350, Mach 1 or GT500. But the PP1 Mustang is off topic to the comparison and just a distraction from the test result we were discussing. Something an apologist for the Corvette would bring up.

At the end of the day, all it means is that the GT500 punches well above it's weight AND has outclassed is actual main competitor, the Camaro Zl1 1LE.
I agree the GT500 is pretty good. And the Z51 Corvette is not as good.
 

Rinzler

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That's funny. I was just basing my universe on the words you wrote. And I'll stick with my doctor's recommendations, thank you very much.



So right after you say your not an apologist for the Corvette, you write the next paragraph full of statements apologizing for the Corvette. Huh. Well ok then.

I agree the Corvette with the $5,000 Z51 Performance Package that was tested is pretty competent on track. Not as competent as some versions of the Mustang, but pretty competent.

I can understand you really love Corvette, so you want to talk about versions of it that don't exist so you can say it beats the Mustang. However, truly those versions do not exist yet. Mentioning them is just a way to apologize for the Corvette's performance - or lack thereof.

Yes the PP1 Mustang at a much lower cost than the Z51 Corvette isn't as good on track as the Corvette. The PP1 in my opinion isn't even really set up for track duty. For running on track in a Mustang you have to go to the GT350, Mach 1 or GT500. But the PP1 Mustang is off topic to the comparison and just a distraction from the test result we were discussing. Something an apologist for the Corvette would bring up.



I agree the GT500 is pretty good. And the Z51 Corvette is not as good.

Alright, I'm going to give you a pass because we live in an age of red team vs blue team and people can't seem to understand that you can appreciate something even if you're on the other team. However, there is a way to OBJECTIVELY look at both these cars. I actually think the C8 is hideous so again, me being objective about what's going on doesn't make me apologetic or love the Corvette. Quite the opposite actually.

You point was that because Chevy called the Z51 a PERFORMANCE PACKAGE, as you yelled it at me, that it was subject to scrutiny of its track prowess. My likeness to the literally naming of the Mustang Performance Package 1 is completely justified as the PP1 car is not set up for track duty at all.

My metaphor for all this, is your argument is like comparing the PP1 Mustang to a high-spec Corvette just because the name of the package has "performance" in it. It doesn't make sense or hold up.

I actually don't think the GT500 and Z51 Corvette should be compared at all. They are cars at opposite ends of their model's ranges. That was my entire point before you jumped in and started ranting.

All in all man, you're making a useless point to other Mustang people who are just happy the GT500 performed very well. If you look at my garage, you can see that I have a LOT of love for the GT500 so please drop your assumptions. You're not being productive here.
 

Hack

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Alright, I'm going to give you a pass because we live in an age of red team vs blue team and people can't seem to understand that you can appreciate something even if you're on the other team. However, there is a way to OBJECTIVELY look at both these cars. I actually think the C8 is hideous so again, me being objective about what's going on doesn't make me apologetic or love the Corvette. Quite the opposite actually.

You point was that because Chevy called the Z51 a PERFORMANCE PACKAGE, as you yelled it at me, that it was subject to scrutiny of its track prowess. My likeness to the literally naming of the Mustang Performance Package 1 is completely justified as the PP1 car is not set up for track duty at all.

My metaphor for all this, is your argument is like comparing the PP1 Mustang to a high-spec Corvette just because the name of the package has "performance" in it. It doesn't make sense or hold up.

I actually don't think the GT500 and Z51 Corvette should be compared at all. They are cars at opposite ends of their model's ranges. That was my entire point before you jumped in and started ranting.

All in all man, you're making a useless point to other Mustang people who are just happy the GT500 performed very well. If you look at my garage, you can see that I have a LOT of love for the GT500 so please drop your assumptions. You're not being productive here.
Ehh, I'm not really doing the red/blue thing but I could. I've been trying to be reasonable. You can keep comparing the PP1 Mustang to a high spec Corvette if you want. It would be off topic for the thread, but that's ok.

I can understand why you would say that the GT500 and Z51 Corvette shouldn't be compared if you were emotionally wrapped up in worrying that something negative might be said about the Corvette. If you try to step back though and just think about it as cars - inanimate objects - and the films are just showing people's opinions and some data about the cars.. if you step back maybe you wouldn't care so much. Like if you told me that the Ferrari in the comparison is a better car than the GT500. I probably would agree with you rather than bringing up the Dino or something. I would probably bring up cost, like the GT500 costs more than the Z51 C8 (depending on options), but hey cost is just one factor when people compare cars.

The Z51 Corvette can lose this comparison but still be a fine car. Just because lots of professional car reviewers think certain things about a car doesn't mean you have to agree with them or feel bad about what they've said.

Like last year when Road and Track compared a group of cars including the Veloster N and the C8 Corvette. They picked the Hyundai over the Corvette. That could sting if someone thought the C8 was amazing. But it's just the opinion of a group of pros that are experts and very knowlegeable about cars. It doesn't mean that people who like the C8 are poor judges of cars.
 

wilkinda65

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