Who will swap for the new 7.3 V8!

[Norm Peterson]

BmacIL was right but he didn’t bring it back to the end user. Leaving it to some ad agency that didn’t build it is ineffective. . . . they have to bring it back to end user experience driving the car.

That part isn't engineering's responsibility. Most people aren't going to understand how the desirability of some end result can be defined in terms that permit logical analysis, and trying to teach them that would be like herding cats. Realistically, it's up to non-engineering minds to reach the non engineering-oriented consumer (i.e. most people) about the final product on an emotional basis.

That’s why the best car CEOs are engineers.

I wouldn't go that far. Though I do think that the best car company CEOs aren't going to come from the ranks of today's musical-chairs MBAs.


Norm

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[Big Boss]

This is sort of like watching a TV series. The more time you have invested in it the more likely you are to stick with it even if it starts to run out of steam. I would say it was starting to wind down last week but the mystery Mustang V8 revived things again. As much as some here don’t want to admit it I am sure some at Ford wanted to give the 7.3 Mustang a go just to see...


They are car guys after all. Even with the official announcements, some group at Ford must be curious to see what it would be like in a Mustang. Hell, if you are going to offer a crate motor, wouldn’t you want to swap the thing into a Mustang to see if it would fit and such? A lot of guys at Ford my age would have more than a passing interest in a 7.3 Stang. So I think there is at least one and more likely a couple of crude test mules out there with the motor. Will it go anywhere? Probably not at Ford but they publicly said to expect to see it in the aftermarket. So even if it’s just a crate motor it is worth the effort to see if it is Mustang friendly. And if we see a strange Mustang sounding like a V8...


Maybe?

Or maybe Ford is just trying to draw up interest in the 7.3 by saying the words Mustang because they know people will flock to a head line that reads Mustang and 7.3. And you know what it worked. Because I read one article that had such a headline. It was something along the lines of "New Ford 7.3 but don't expect it in the Mustang" the whole article was about a boring truck motor, designed for truck stuff and motor homes and fleet users who need more power than the base engine but don't want the cost of the diesel. Then at the very end was oh yeah and it's doesn't fit in the Mustang so don't expect it in the mustang or F-150. It's basic click bait.


Also I will say it again since you say you just want the feeling of torque down low, the A10 will rob you of that feeling at just about anything other than idle or maybe less than 20MPH.

 

[TexasRebel]

Albert Einstein quote. "Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution."

Einstein knew that it took imagination to ask the correct questions. The correct questions lead to revolutionary theories... The best theories cannot be disproved by math... like gravity or relativity.

Also, going by memory: Einstein and the guy who found the limits to Arithmetic were friends, almost best friends. Also - Einstein is in agreement with limits to math - for want of a better word.

no, limits is the correct word...
like your IQ: lim [x->infinity] (1/x)

Although I'm not certain if you're talking about Weierstrass or Riemann here... Mathematicians may seem anti-social (like Nash), but that's only if you're not speaking their language.

 

[Dfeeds]

Why is this thread 98 pages long?

 

[engineermike]

Let’s drill down here. You seem to think that you don’t have to floor it to “feel the torque”. So you have 2 engines in the same body maintaining a constant speed. One is 7.3 liters and the other is 3.7 liters. Do you believe you can feel the difference between these 2 engines in the same car maintaining the constant speed?....Can you describe to me exactly what you mean by "That feeling of the torque down low matters"? What does it feel like? You do what, and what is the result?

Fat guy, maybe you missed it but perhaps you could answer the above questions.

 

[Fatguy]

Einstein knew that it took imagination to ask the correct questions. The correct questions lead to revolutionary theories... The best theories cannot be disproved by math... like gravity or relativity.



no, limits is the correct word...
like your IQ: lim [x->infinity] (1/x)

Although I'm not certain if you're talking about Weierstrass or Riemann here... Mathematicians may seem anti-social (like Nash), but that's only if you're not speaking their language.

Sometimes they have mental problems. Kurt Godel (who I admired) was one of those. He had serious mental issues that ultimately lead to his death by starvation. Their greatness often ran parallel with their mental issues.

 

[Fatguy]

Fat guy, maybe you missed it but perhaps you could answer the above questions.

Relating the feelings between a Windsor V8 and 3.7 V6. To pass or squirt into a gap ahead I have to drop a gear in the six as opposed to just staying in the same gear gear quietly with the V8. Feels like it has balls and is more powerful. There is that experience thing again. You guys will mention the characteristics of the A10 but there is something to be said for being able to do everything without changing a gear. The big V8s only needed three gears.

Performance wise they are similar with the nod to the V6. But the V8 feels faster and more powerful.

 

[Fatguy]

Why is this thread 98 pages long?

It depends on how many replies the admins allow per page. More replies then less pages.



As simple as that!

 

[Fatguy]

Or maybe Ford is just trying to draw up interest in the 7.3 by saying the words Mustang because they know people will flock to a head line that reads Mustang and 7.3. And you know what it worked. Because I read one article that had such a headline. It was something along the lines of "New Ford 7.3 but don't expect it in the Mustang" the whole article was about a boring truck motor, designed for truck stuff and motor homes and fleet users who need more power than the base engine but don't want the cost of the diesel. Then at the very end was oh yeah and it's doesn't fit in the Mustang so don't expect it in the mustang or F-150. It's basic click bait.


Also I will say it again since you say you just want the feeling of torque down low, the A10 will rob you of that feeling at just about anything other than idle or maybe less than 20MPH.

A lot of people said that. Then again when you hear about a new 7.3 gas motor, the knee jerk reaction is whether it can fit in he Mustang. It’s a natural reaction. Ford knew this which is why they muted any thoughts about this engine in mainstream production. As a specialty item the idea has possibilities. There is interest in one last big block Mustang. Someone will make money off that idea...

 

[Big Boss]

Relating the feelings between a Windsor V8 and 3.7 V6. To pass or squirt into a gap ahead I have to drop a gear in the six as opposed to just staying in the same gear gear quietly with the V8. Feels like it has balls and is more powerful. There is that experience thing again. You guys will mention the characteristics of the A10 but there is something to be said for being able to do everything without changing a gear. The big V8s only needed three gears.

Performance wise they are similar with the nod to the V6. But the V8 feels faster and more powerful.

Right back in the day they only needed 3 gears and transmissiones weren't as advanced. However you said you wanted it with an A10 and any sort of throttle input is going to drop gears or several gears. You seem to keep choosing to ignore that.

 

[Fatguy]

That part isn't engineering's responsibility. Most people aren't going to understand how the desirability of some end result can be defined in terms that permit logical analysis, and trying to teach them that would be like herding cats. Realistically, it's up to non-engineering minds to reach the non engineering-oriented consumer (i.e. most people) about the final product on an emotional basis.



I wouldn't go that far. Though I do think that the best car company CEOs aren't going to come from the ranks of today's musical-chairs MBAs.


Norm

I should tell you guys I have nothing against engineers. My dad is one and we just scoped out the driver’s exam location as he is 86 and still driving. I fact he insisted on driving there out of town with me. And surprisingly he made it by himself! But his challenge will be the dementia test, that is his challenge now.


Anyway Norm, an engineer with a business education is a diamond in the rough. They will populated the lineup with products that make sense to the buyers and long term viability of the company as they know what is involved in all aspects of the operation.


At a press launch I would rather have an engineer pitch and answer questions as opposed to some ad man reciting bullet points. If I take a test drive and comment on the handling an engineer will tell me all about it than some made up on the fly crap from the advertising people.

 

[Fatguy]

Right back in the day they only needed 3 gears and transmissiones weren't as advanced. However you said you wanted it with an A10 and any sort of throttle input is going to drop gears or several gears. You seem to keep choosing to ignore that.

The A10 that comes with the motor as in an actual swap it is less hassle. I’m sure you can get it to hold gears with the truck version. With electric vehicles with a basically flat torque curve you have exactly what I want but the actual living with an EV is not quite there yet. But a big block comes close as it’s not a motorcycle engine - a couple of gears are all that is needed.


Talk to women about passing power on the highway with a Tesla and their eyes light up! You can have something similar with a large motor but ten gears is overkill.

 

[TexasRebel]

Kurt Godel (who I admired) was one of those.

This thread and the 7.3L S550 "project" might be incompleteness theorems #3 and #4.

 

[WildHorse]

Albert Einstein quote. "Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution."

Einstein also said " The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.” KInda like what you're doing. Maybe you should try "If you want different results than what you’re getting, you have to try different approaches." But if you did that, you'd see that your arguments are invalid no matter what universe you are in.

 

[Erik427]

Here is the truth.
A big V-8 will offer power down low and up high.
The small V-8 will only make power up high.

If both made the same peak hp, which one makes the most?

Which one is simpler to design - build - work on?

Cheaper?

The Chevy LS and LT has already proven that the FE is the same.
So has the 3rd Gen Hemi.

I cannot believe how many excuses I've read.
How many fallacies.

Why on earth would somebody want a motor that's bigger, more complex
and riddled with so many defects vs the 7.3?

Are people really brainwashed into this DOHC propaganda?

Well it looks like the 7.3 will never be offered....
But can we have the more powerful 3.5TT instead?
I know it's just as complex, but it is far more powerful.

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