Who will swap for the new 7.3 V8!

[Fatguy]

Do you understand that you don’t get the engine torque rating at part throttle? In other words, at constant speed or light acceleration a 3.7 and a 7.3 are producing the same amount of torque. Estimated 450 or 500 ftlb is only the available torque when you floor it.

It’s all about a feeling.



Ok. So ultimately what I’m getting at is this. All you engineers can push your figures, your equations and try to prove things with math. But math and talk about math means nothing without feelings and experiences.


Let’s say you have never been in a car before. All that talk about 0-60 or skid pad numbers, braking distance. With out having felt and experienced it before, it all means nothing - absolutely nothing! You may as well be speaking a foreign language. So the more times we have experiences in different cars, the more we can appreciate and use the mathematics used by engineers.



But human feelings and experiences will always be part of the discussion. I know what fast is. A number does not tell me that. A number does not push me back in the seat. A number does not make the scenery rush past my eyes. A number does not make the air whip by my face when we go fast. Only by knowing what fast is in all its forms can math have any utility.



Therefore, how I feel driving the car matters. That feeling of the torque down low matters. And the facts and figures are a distant second. When I told Norm that math ultimately does not matter I felt sorry for him as being an engineer means math is your life. But the truth is the truth...

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[WildHorse]

With my 18 manifold and JLT (probably in the 500 crank area I am guessing) I can now go full throttle from a dig and keep power down all the way. With advancetrac off. A slight wiggle of the rear end as I shift into 2nd and then straight down the road. Break the tires loose again as I shift into 3rd gear at 7800 rpm. Real good fun! Also 285 tires but not RE71Rs

I have 325's (Firehawk Indy 500) out back with few mods (see sig / proly nowhere near 500chp) & I'll roast them 1st-4th lol. Haven't tried em at the track yet.

@Fatguy.. settle down snowflake. Toronto will get knocked out, & and your V-6 isn't in the same league as the 5.0. Have you raced a ecoboost yet for some humility? The 7.3 has one place, between the frame rails of a truck.

 

[Fatguy]

@Fatguy.. settle down snowflake. Toronto will get knocked out, & and your V-6 isn't in the same league as the 5.0. Have you raced a ecoboost yet for some humility? The 7.3 has one place, between the frame rails of a truck.

Shhhh...



Can’t you see I’m disseminating important information to our talented engineers unawares!



Shhh...



BTW: I was born in Winnipeg.

 

[BmacIL]

It’s all about a feeling.



Ok. So ultimately what I’m getting at is this. All you engineers can push your figures, your equations and try to prove things with math. But math and talk about math means nothing without feelings and experiences.


Let’s say you have never been in a car before. All that talk about 0-60 or skid pad numbers, braking distance. With out having felt and experienced it before, it all means nothing - absolutely nothing! You may as well be speaking a foreign language. So the more times we have experiences in different cars, the more we can appreciate and use the mathematics used by engineers.



But human feelings and experiences will always be part of he discussion. I know what fast is. A number does not tell me that. A number does not push me back in the seat. A number does not make the scenery rush past my eyes. A number does not make the air whip by my face when we go fast. Only by knowing what fast is in all its forms can math have any utility.



Therefore, how I feel driving the car matters. That feeling of the torque down low matters. And the facts and figures are a distant second. When I told Norm that math ultimately does not matter I felt sorry for him as being an engineer means math is your life. But the truth is the truth...

Says the guy who clearly doesn't understand basic, high school-level physics. Engineers working on cars take the feel someone wants and turn it into objective, numerical measures so that they can design to meet or exceed a target. That's how shit works. Stop lecturing on things you have little to no comprehension of.

 

[Fatguy]

Says the guy who clearly doesn't understand basic, high school-level physics. Engineers working on cars take the feel someone wants and turns it into objective, numerical measures so that they can design to meet or exceed a target. That's how shit works. Stop lecturing on things you have little to no comprehension of.

If that’s your advertising campaign to sell a car you worked on.... it won’t work...

 

[Norm Peterson]

Ok. So ultimately what I’m getting at is this. All you engineers can push your figures, your equations and try to prove things with math. But math and talk about math means nothing without feelings and experiences.

Let’s say you have never been in a car before. All that talk about 0-06 or skid pad numbers, braking distance. With out having felt and experienced it before, it all means nothing - absolutely nothing! You may as well be speaking a foreign language. So the more times we have experiences in different cars, the more we can appreciate and use the mathematics used by engineers.

You're making a pretty big assumption there, the part where you're suggesting that the engineering side operates in a vacuum, locked out from "real world experience. If anything, an engineering outlook can operate from fewer "real world experiences", as long as there are some.

But human feelings and experiences will always be part of he discussion. I know what fast is. A number does not tell me that. A number does not push me back in the seat. A number does not make true scenery rush past my eyes. A number does not make the air whip by my face when we go fast. Only by knowing what fast is in all its forms can math have any utility.

Numbers won't provide the experience itself, but they can provide the basis for what to expect once you have some experience to work from.

Therefore, how I feel driving the car matters. That feeling of the torque down low matters. And the facts and figures are a distant second. When I told Norm that math ultimately does not matter I felt sorry for him as being an engineer means math is your life. But the truth is the truth...

I'm afraid you're looking at the math as an end in and of itself. It isn't that way at all. Best quick description I can give is that math provides a basis for predicting what you can or should expect. And engineering is wider than just the math that's involved; calculations are only the visible trace of the path from a bunch of inputs to logical results that are hopefully sound enough to form useful conclusions from.

A good engineer should be able to take results that are sufficiently descriptive and put them into real-world context. Here's an example of something I'm occasionally working on, and it tells me quite a lot more than I think you're going to get out of it.

On a side note (this thread has plenty of those), I still don't like XenForo. Took three edits to clean up the quotes.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

If that’s your advertising campaign to sell a car you worked on.... it won’t work...

When it comes to understanding engineering, marketing & sales are just as clueless as the vast majority of their customers. But it doesn't matter if none of those people understand how the product came about with the performance that it had, and it's not worth engineering's time and patience to try to teach them.


Norm

 

[engineermike]

Watching fat guy try to explain away math, physics, and engineering without having the slightest clue about how any of them work is, well, entertaining.

 

[GT Pony]

Come on guys ... only 4 more pages to hit 100 !!

 

[BmacIL]

Watching fat guy try to explain away math, physics, and engineering without having the slightest clue about how any of them work is, well, entertaining.

I'm just glad he's in Canada. We have enough wilfully ignorant people (and they vote!) in the USA.

 

[BmacIL]

If that’s your advertising campaign to sell a car you worked on.... it won’t work...

No its a rebuttal to your dismissal of reality.

 

[Fatguy]

When it comes to understanding engineering, marketing & sales are just as clueless as the vast majority of their customers. But it doesn't matter if none of those people understand how the product came about with the performance that it had, and it's not worth engineering's time and patience to try to teach them.


Norm

BmacIL was right but he didn’t bring it back to the end user. Leaving it to some ad agency that didn’t build it is ineffective. That’s why the best car CEOs are engineers. But they have to bring it back to end user experience driving the car.

 

[engineermike]

A number does not push me back in the seat. A number does not make the scenery rush past my eyes. A number does not make the air whip by my face when we go fast....

You couldn’t be more wrong about the above. Acceleration pushes you back in the seat, as measured in G’s (a number). Speed, measured in distance/time (another number), makes scenery rush past your eyes. Relative velocity of air vs your face is also a number. This is hilarious that you don’t think any of these things can be measured using numbers.

It’s all about a feeling.. That feeling of the torque down low matters...

Let’s drill down here. You seem to think that you don’t have to floor it to “feel the torque”. So you have 2 engines in the same body maintaining a constant speed. One is 7.3 liters and the other is 3.7 liters. Do you believe you can feel the difference between these 2 engines in the same car maintaining the constant speed?

 

[GT Pony]

Fatguy just needs to put the lowest differential gears he can find in his V6 Mustang ... that will give some more "low end torque" feeling.

 

[engineermike]

.... But math and talk about math means nothing without feelings and experiences.....

I think most people here are seeking that feeling of acceleration. Power, grip, etc provide that feeling. All of these things result from lots and lots and lots of math. Does the math take away from the rush I get when I floor it? Not hardly!

..... That feeling of the torque down low matters....

Can you describe to me exactly what you mean by this? What does it feel like? You do what, and what is the result? I seriously think there is a big disconnect between perception and reality stemming from this very statement.

...When I told Norm that math ultimately does not matter I felt sorry for him as being an engineer means math is your life. But the truth is the truth...

Why would Norm be offended? You clearly don’t have a clue what you’re talking about so I wouldn’t be offended if I were him.

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