Are suspension upgrades very noticeable?

[clevernickname]

Please don't flame, with all my cars I always did mostly cosmetic and noise. Like a douchebag.

Now, being older, I appreciate a more planted and confident car. As someone who knows VERY little about suspension upgrades, is a "typical" suspension kit around $500-$1000 noticeable like this one: http://www.cjponyparts.com/eibach-suspension-kit-pro-plus-gt-2015-2017/p/35145880/

In my uninformed mind, I can't imagine those two sway bars actually DO much. I know they do, but they don't scream "this will make your car handle that much better". I guess most of the parts wouldn't from just looking at them for someone like me.

So..tl'dr - lowering by 1-2 inches and sway bars noticeable? Or need to spend a lot more.

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[WhiteyDog]

What I did to mine in my sig DEFINITELY made a difference. It is WAY more planted and handles extremely well. But, every little bit will help.

 

[havasu486]

Please don't flame, with all my cars I always did mostly cosmetic and noise. Like a douchebag.

Now, being older, I appreciate a more planted and confident car. As someone who knows VERY little about suspension upgrades, is a "typical" suspension kit around $500-$1000 noticeable like this one: http://www.cjponyparts.com/eibach-suspension-kit-pro-plus-gt-2015-2017/p/35145880/

In my uninformed mind, I can't imagine those two sway bars actually DO much. I know they do, but they don't scream "this will make your car handle that much better". I guess most of the parts wouldn't from just looking at them for someone like me.

So..tl'dr - lowering by 1-2 inches and sway bars noticeable? Or need to spend a lot more.

Reach out to Kelly Aiken of BMR, he will help you out with all your suspension needs. What you do depends on what your plan is for your car. I love all my BMR and Ford Performance goodies. Eliminated the wheel hop and my car is now a beast on the road course.

 

[VinnAY]

I don't, never have, seen the point of lowering a car beyond cosmetics. A street car/DD, anyway. To be perfectly honest the rear sway bar upgrade was the single most impact on my car. I used the steeda 1 1/8" drag bar. Also used the IRS supports, Differential bushings, and IRC braces. Added a K Brace up front (Steeda). Adding those things made my PP car even way better, handles exactly like I'd want it too, exceeds the drivers capabilities
Of note too, before I did any of that the rear end was easy to break loose and I spun it out a few times. Now it's controlled and predicable when it breaks free.

 

[jbailer]

Suspension upgrades make a huge difference, exactly as you mention. Give Steeda a call and tell them what you want out of the car and they can help you. You can spend a ton of money if you just start buying parts. You want to buy specific parts to accomplish your goals. Both Mike D and TJ from Steeda are here on the forum all the time or call and ask for 1 of them.

 

[AmericanLegend]

BMR has great Suspension products for the S550. Highly recommend them.

 

[NightmareMoon]

First off, not all suspension "upgrades" will increase 'performance' if you define performance as more composed handling or better grip over typical (sometimes rough) roads. Often stiffer springs and stiffer sways require more driver attention and skill because they can cause events to happen much faster as you approach and exceed the limits of traction. You can get into, but also hopefully out of trouble faster.

Stock suspensions, while a bit slow to respond to sudden inputs, are also slower to get out of sorts and usually give more feedback to the driver by way of body lean as the car is approaching its limits. Increasing the responsiveness with a stiffer parts can be terribly fun, but it can lead to some scary moments if you're not used to it.

If you never approach the raw limits of traction, then with stiffer sways you'll notice less body roll, which gives the impression that the car has more grip, even though it doesn't really. Turnin can become more crisp and responsive with a stiffer sways, that much is for real.

 

[Rebellion]

If you wanted to, you could do your suspension mods incrementally. At first, I'd do springs and dampers at once, those contribute the most to the handling and feeling of the car, they are VERY noticeable.

Now, if you still wanted more roll stiffness then add the sways bars (most likely the rear is more necessary, since they're weaker from factory).

Along with those, you can fix factory "problems" like excessive slack, deflection, unwanted movement, add stiffening, etc. if you are detail oriented about the suspension...but I believe they are less noticeable (but still important), it's a matter of how much effort do you want to put in.

I wouldn't go with a kit that doesn't include dampers (if you don't have a GTPP), the stock ones are sort of shady. For looks and handling, at minimum I'd suggest springs, dampers, and the BMR CB005 (plus the strut/cowl brace if not included with the car).

 

[Norm Peterson]

Now, being older, I appreciate a more planted and confident car. As someone who knows VERY little about suspension upgrades, is a "typical" suspension kit around $500-$1000 noticeable like this one: http://www.cjponyparts.com/eibach-suspension-kit-pro-plus-gt-2015-2017/p/35145880/

In my uninformed mind, I can't imagine those two sway bars actually DO much. I know they do, but they don't scream "this will make your car handle that much better". I guess most of the parts wouldn't from just looking at them for someone like me.

If what you want the most is driving behavior that's more composed than stock/base, maybe even PP, all you really need is good shocks & struts.

If you further wish to reduce roll somewhat and perhaps lighten up the understeer a little, add adjustable stabilizer bars to your wish list, possibly (but not necessarily) with aftermarket endlinks. Use the adjustability (preferably on both bars) to put the handling balance and "feel" where you like them the best. That does not mean go straight to full-stiff on both. Full soft and work up is a better plan, and don't be afraid to run the bars at different settings from each other, though I wouldn't recommend running the rear bar at a stiffer setting than the front bar until after you've got some seat time driving it harder.

What sta-bars can do is, kind of a Cliff's Notes version:

(1) reduce roll, which maintains the outboard tires' contact patches in a better relation to the pavement. As the car rolls, so do the tires. Just not as much as the body, and in a hard corner the outer front tire in particular will end up cornering on only the outer one or two ribs of the tire tread instead of almost the entire tread width. Cornering grip suffers, and slip angles increase when you're using less than half the tread's width. Cut the amount of roll and that outer front tire doesn't camber over as far. And front vs rear slip angles is the definition of understeer/oversteer.

(2) shift the handling balance by altering how much of the lateral load transfer is resisted by the front and rear tires. Too much load transfer up front generally yields understeer, too much out back usually results in oversteer. Mathematically, these effects are always present - retired engineer here - but as a practical matter you have to be driving with a fair bit of enthusiasm to actually feel this as a SOTP sensation even when you know what to expect.


Bars, endlinks, shocks, and struts is really all that I'd done to the suspension on my car as depicted below ↓↓↓ - yes, it's still on its OE springs. Its composure at a novice to experienced intermediate level track pace has been noted by both in-car instructors and at least one track corner worker. It didn't beat you up in normal driving, hardly any firmer than stock given that I'd chosen adjustable shocks & struts and took the time to dial them in for street driving separate from the track day settings.

I've since replaced the springs with handling-level springs from BMR, and ended up having to go to a different (stiffer) rear sta-bar to re-balance the handling with them. I've also found the shock/strut settings to be a little more critical with the firmer springs at least for the street driving part of it. I did buy the springs for their stiffness and the half inch or so of lowering that resulted was strictly incidental (didn't want more than that anyway). No track time with this setup yet.

I do have the cut/clamp FRPP X-pipe to install, which as hard as this may be to believe will be the first exhaust mod on my '08.


Norm

 

[Volstang]

BMR has quality parts and exceptional customer service. Kelly will take good care of you. The Cradle Lockout Kit makes a big difference in rear stability and eliminating wheel hop.

 

[tom_sprecher]

If you have the PP will any suspension mods be that noticeable if all you want is handling on mountain twisties and road courses?

 

[BMR Tech]

If you have the PP will any suspension mods be that noticeable if all you want is handling on mountain twisties and road courses?

I daily drive my 2016 PP GT. I bought this car for exactly what you stated.

I am taking it one step at a time....instead of how I usually do things, and go all in at once.

Goals for my daily driver are, remove atleast 250lbs without sacrficing looks and ride comfort and OE appearance, and install "just enough" suspension pieces to suite my needs. Needs such as, comfortable daily driver with minimal NVH, the ability to take the car to The FIRM in North Florida and go 1.25 lap times on street tires, and then go South to Sebring and run <2.30 lap times - oh, and then go to the drag strip and go 11's with only a tune, and maybe air intake and axle back. ;)

So that said, my very first mod was our CB005. This made a really nice difference....especially with corner exit at The FIRM. On regular street tires, I was able to really put more efficient power down on corner exits my last outing - quite surprising actually. I also have better straight line accel on the street, and have an insane amount more feel to the road surface, which helps with my confidence.

My next and 2nd modification was our new Upper Camber Links. I did these primarily for testing purposes...and did not really expect much of any improvement. I cannot really tell I have them on the car...but atleast I saved like 4lbs - I will take it.

Now, onto the next round. I am working with another company on some suspension parts, which will include a very unique package of components. Sway bars front and rear, and most of the rubber bushings on the front AND rear IRS will be replaced with a combination of elastomer and PolyElast bushing technology.

Thus far with over two years of experience with Performance Pack GTs - I can confidently state that, the best suspension changes IN MY OPINION on an other wise stock PP car are, in order, as follows:

CB005 Cradle Bushing Lockout Kit
BK055 LCA Bearing Upgrade
TCA045 Vertical Links (for handling)
TR005 Toe Links (I cannot stand the OE links!)
Ford Performance Knuckle-Toe Bearing Kit

Past that point, the roll stiffness and damping:

Linear Springs
Dampers
Sway Bars

I have this order because, I highly recommend removing rubber FIRST...so you get a true feel of the suspension. Roll stiffness, over/understeer and overall balance will change once removing the chassis slop.

Lastly, sway bars being last - and this is because I recommend using sway bars as a final step to tuning the balance of the car. You simply do not know where you want the car to be until you perform the other modifications that impact how you want the bars set. Bushings, Wheels, Tires, Weight distribution, driving style etc.

Good Luck!

 

[BmacIL]

I daily drive my 2016 PP GT. I bought this car for exactly what you stated.

I am taking it one step at a time....instead of how I usually do things, and go all in at once.

Goals for my daily driver are, remove atleast 250lbs without sacrficing looks and ride comfort and OE appearance, and install "just enough" suspension pieces to suite my needs. Needs such as, comfortable daily driver with minimal NVH, the ability to take the car to The FIRM in North Florida and go 1.25 lap times on street tires, and then go South to Sebring and run <2.30 lap times - oh, and then go to the drag strip and go 11's with only a tune, and maybe air intake and axle back. ;)

So that said, my very first mod was our CB005. This made a really nice difference....especially with corner exit at The FIRM. On regular street tires, I was able to really put more efficient power down on corner exits my last outing - quite surprising actually. I also have better straight line accel on the street, and have an insane amount more feel to the road surface, which helps with my confidence.

My next and 2nd modification was our new Upper Camber Links. I did these primarily for testing purposes...and did not really expect much of any improvement. I cannot really tell I have them on the car...but atleast I saved like 4lbs - I will take it.

Now, onto the next round. I am working with another company on some suspension parts, which will include a very unique package of components. Sway bars front and rear, and most of the rubber bushings on the front AND rear IRS will be replaced with a combination of elastomer and PolyElast bushing technology.

Thus far with over two years of experience with Performance Pack GTs - I can confidently state that, the best suspension changes IN MY OPINION on an other wise stock PP car are, in order, as follows:

CB005 Cradle Bushing Lockout Kit
BK055 LCA Bearing Upgrade
TCA045 Vertical Links (for handling)
TR005 Toe Links (I cannot stand the OE links!)
Ford Performance Knuckle-Toe Bearing Kit

Past that point, the roll stiffness and damping:

Linear Springs
Dampers
Sway Bars

I have this order because, I highly recommend removing rubber FIRST...so you get a true feel of the suspension. Roll stiffness, over/understeer and overall balance will change once removing the chassis slop.

Lastly, sway bars being last - and this is because I recommend using sway bars as a final step to tuning the balance of the car. You simply do not know where you want the car to be until you perform the other modifications that impact how you want the bars set. Bushings, Wheels, Tires, Weight distribution, driving style etc.

Good Luck!

QED

 

[JamesinLittleSilver]

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67069
Is what I did the I think it makes a huge difference and am very happy with it after the changes. Sure that all the good brands are an upgrade.

 

[tj@steeda]

Happy to help ... P.M. sent.

Best Regards,

TJ

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