MikeD1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2015
- Threads
- 18
- Messages
- 1,170
- Reaction score
- 295
- Location
- Central FL
- Vehicle(s)
- 2016 Challenger Hellcat
^^^ Yes, yes, YES !!!
Sponsored
Sponsored
Vibration between 50 & 70 mph
- Thread starter icarumba
- Start date
- Watchers 243
-
- Tags
- 2015 2016 2017 axles balancing carrier bearing center bearing differential driveline driveshaft drivetrain flange ford service gears half shaft harshness irs cradle noise nvh pinion angle pumpkin rear rear differential rear gears rear pinion rear pinion flange reindexing road force balance rumble run out ssm 45938 ssm 46767 tires transmission flange tsb two piece driveshaft u-joint vibe vibrating vibration
Mr981
Well-Known Member
Good post.I know this thread is huge and maybe not all posts are being read - but with all due respect, many of us who have had the cars "analyzed" were at shops where in fact the vibration analyzer was in fact used. I for one can vouch for that, SSI even had posted about it in my numerous responses in this very thread.
Do I have the read outs? No - they were not given to me and they were not documented in that respect on my original lengthy invoice/work order.
Where they documented internally or through verbal conversations between my Service Center, the FSE who visited the Service Center or via the multiple conversations with the Ford Engineerong Team - it could've possible, but that exacting information was not related to me.
I do know they had to use the tool and it did measure readings as I was told - but exactly what the readout produced, that info was not told to me from a tech standpoint.
Many others in this thread have also had their Service Centers use the vibration analyzer tool - many have said that even AFTER the tool was used AND the vehicle was "fixed" via "X,Y,Z" methods or replacement of "A,B,C" parts, there were still issues (or there have been repeat visits back to the Dealer) until the vibe was corrected by "insert whatever part/method fixed it here" happened...
So, even IF there were certain vibration analyzer readouts or specs - it doesn't seem like that tool is THE end all for a 100% fail safe corrective action or replacement of "insert whatever here".
I see the problem as being:
1) Piss poor quality control
2) Cheap, Inferior or junk parts being manufactured by X-Vendor or drivetrain Supplier.
3) Poor oversight of making sure that once X-assemblies or parts are assembled on the build line that they ARE within exacting specs of how that specific assembly IS supposed to be spec'd according to the books. Not just blatantly slapping shit together and calling it a day.
4) Poor documentation of the issue being relayed or NOT relayed back to Ford Corporate, "Ford Tech Forums", OASIS, and or any other proper method of communication when there IS an issue as large as this concerning owners.
5) No proper "road testing" being performed by Ford Service Centers to understand the vibration claims by vehicle owners.
6) Lack of skill set(s) by some Ford Techs at the Ford Service Centers who do not know how to use the vibration analyzer, do not know how to make proper diagnosis and/or are not able to pinpoint exact areas of concern.
7) Misguided diagnosis reported back to the Ford Service Center Managers - where in the common reply back to the customer is: "That is a normal characteristic of the Mustang"... When it's total BS.
You seem to be a Ford Tech that has a lot of responses in certain threads on here - so I'll put this out there for you:
Why don't you post up the list of Vibration Analyzer values and to what possible part that value refers to as being at fault?
I haven't had any issues with drive-train vibration on my manual EB, but listening to the numbers of people that have been affected by it certainly makes me thanks my lucky stars I haven't been pulled into this mess.
The points you make on QC--or lack thereof--resonated with me, thinking back to my experiences with whining differentials on several Explorers in the 1998-2006 time frame. Two different vehicles -a '98' and a '04' --had the same defect in their differentials (supposedly bad machining) . The '04' differential was replaced twice--at 15K and at 60K, so Ford apparently replaced a defective part with another defective part or it something was causing good differentials to go bad. That experience caused me to avoid ford products until the '16' EB.
The larger question is how these cars got off the production floor without being noticed; wouldn't you think a hot test of the car on the rollers would generate the same kind of vibration?
If in fact it is a differential problem, is it supplied as an assembly to Ford or does Ford assemble the differential from vendor supplied parts? Either way, Ford is on the hook for a lot of warranty$'s and would think they'd be going after their suppliers if they're the ones at fault.
Cobra Jet
Well-Known Member
So, it also does not seem like we S550 owners are the only ones having the driveline vibe.... 2015-2016 F150 owners are pissed too - they're having nearly identical problems and in nearly the same speed (mph) ranges:
http://www.fordf150.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=119087
http://www.f150forum.com/f118/2015-f150-fx4-vibration-help-297498/
AND very interesting find within those threads regarding the OWNER FIX being used on the 2015-2016 F150 carrier bearing assembly:
What do you all think of that finding? I'd be willing to bet shims may work on the S550 carrier assembly too... And it would be REALLY interesting to see if using shims would correct the vibes that some Ford Service Centers cannot seem to fix...
http://www.fordf150.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=119087
http://www.f150forum.com/f118/2015-f150-fx4-vibration-help-297498/
AND very interesting find within those threads regarding the OWNER FIX being used on the 2015-2016 F150 carrier bearing assembly:
So.......
What do you all think of that finding? I'd be willing to bet shims may work on the S550 carrier assembly too... And it would be REALLY interesting to see if using shims would correct the vibes that some Ford Service Centers cannot seem to fix...
Last edited:
GT Pony
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2015
- Threads
- 77
- Messages
- 9,402
- Reaction score
- 4,839
- Location
- Pacific NW
- Vehicle(s)
- 2015 GT Premium, Black w/Saddle, 19s, NAV
Interesting, could also be a factor on the S550 Mustangs.
MikeD1
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2015
- Threads
- 18
- Messages
- 1,170
- Reaction score
- 295
- Location
- Central FL
- Vehicle(s)
- 2016 Challenger Hellcat
There was a post somewhere on the site from one of the vendors saying they were shimming something in the rear to get rid of vibration issues - can't find the thread or which vendor it was (thinking BMR, but could be wrong).
FOUND IT !! It was a guy from BMR .............. here's the whole thread:
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53186&highlight=shim
Last edited:
Sponsored
347CobraII
Well-Known Member
They're changing angle of driveline to fix that issue. Doesn't mean it's same for Mustang.
Just because people are upset and SCREAM design is POS. Let me ask people prove it's bad design. Because it easy to sit on side line and say it without having to prove it. I hear this all the time
347CobraII
Well-Known Member
I have angle finder I can measure my driveline angle. Then run it through Eaton program at work. Thats not going to happen right now I'm in middle of putting V8 in 03 Ranger from 99 Ranger After that put stock exhaust back on may take it Newton, Ia dealership since they have ran across and fix. Or if I take it back to MY selling dealer I will push for factory engineer.
I should do road force balance for tires see what that does
I should do road force balance for tires see what that does
Lo Pony
Well-Known Member
I was kind of confused as to why you were on this thread, but here you raise a point. This is been brought up time and time again, and I understand what you're saying, Some may not know how to differentiate a tire issue from a driveshaft, etc..
So, there are vibration analysis apps that anyone can download for your iPhone or android. I would say that everyone who has a vibrating car should get the app and then hold your phone or device to the console and drive the car where the vibration is occurring. Compile and report all data here
Wait, why are you lurking on this thread again? Do you want to help or do you want to be part of the problem? Or if you are A Ford Tech, is this part of some backward agenda?
Do you think the average owner is going to be able to understand how to interpret NVH data if we are questioning whether or not they can even distinguish a tire from a driveshaft vibration? The dealerships are supposed to have the expertise to be able to do the analysis. It follows, that if they are competent to do the analysis and generate the data, then they are also competent to make the diagnosis and make the repair. Therefore, they do not report the data to the customer. There is absolutely no reason for someone to need to turn to this forum to diagnose the problem if the dealership is doing even half their job.
The point really needs to be that folks have to ask to have the cars NVH-analyzed at the dealer service centers, and mostly the analysis is not being done even if people ask. This is not the owners' fault. The dealerships are often negligent and completely unresponsive because they don't know what they're doing. It would be nice if the dealerships were performing these analysis and then giving the data to the customers, but this is not what is happening.
Last edited:
FordTechOne
Well-Known Member
Everything you just said is hearsay. You obviously don't understand how a vibration analyzer works. It simply reads the frequency, order, and intensity of a vibration. The vibration analyzer is the "end all" because the readings are not open to interpretation, then are either within specification or out of specification.
That's nothing more than a baseless comment. You have no facts to back it up, therefore it's simply nonsense.
See #1.
Please, do provide some factual basis for this claim. Once again....you can't.
Evidence? Of course not.
What is "total BS"? The fact that people like yourself claim they have a "vibration", yet no dealer can seem to verify it and provide readings?
The common theme in this thread appears to be people like yourself pretend to post factual statements, when the reality is that these statements and claims are all entirely baseless. Nobody cares what you "see the problem as being". It's simply your own opinion; you have NO FACTS and obviously no technical knowledge.You seem to be a Ford Tech that has a lot of responses in certain threads on here - so I'll put this out there for you:
Why don't you post up the list of Vibration Analyzer values and to what possible part that value refers to as being at fault?
The fact that you want me to post "vibration analyzer values" and corresponding "faulty parts" proves that you know absolutely nothing about engineering, vehicle diagnosis, or physics in general. Vibration analyzer readings have an infinite range of values; a single aspect of a reading means nothing without the rest of the values. The values also don't correspond to a faulty part; they correspond to a system, which then allows the issue to be narrowed down accordingly.
So, lets try and post helpful, technical information instead of baseless opinions that don't help anyone.
Please post vibration analyzer readings that show the concern. If the dealer used a vibration analyzer (as they should), the readings should be right on the R.O. Once we have said readings, I can assist with determining the root cause of the issue, should one exist.
Last edited:
FordTechOne
Well-Known Member
No average person can differentiate between a tire induced vibration and a driveline induced vibration. Failing to see your point.
No cell phone app is even in the same realm as a vibration analyzer tool, which costs thousands of dollars. You obviously don't understand the complexity of the diagnostics required to accurately identify a vibration in a vehicle.
Trying to help, but apparently people such as yourself would rather just complain than present any facts to support your concern.
Which is exactly why it's questionable that so many people are on here complaining. It's a common issue that occurs on the internet these days; one person reports a concern and suddenly a thousand other people mysteriously have the same concern just by reading the post :doh:
On the other hand, I agree that if in fact a vehicle has an issue, the dealer should be able to resolve it without the customer having to resort to the internet. The problem is that apparently some dealers don't have the equipment like a vibration analyzer or a Road Force Balancer, which makes it impossible for them to perform an accurate diagnosis.
No dealer will take NVH readings if no concern can be verified. On the other hand, if the dealer verifies the concern and records the vibration analyzer readings, there is no reason they shouldn't be able to pinpoint the issue to a specific system. If the dealer can't do that, especially with the help of a Hotline, then something is clearly wrong.
Last edited:
Sponsored
347CobraII
Well-Known Member
Ever since 2 piece driveshaft was introduce to Mustang in 05 everyone has blamed it for everything. For some reason people have it there head it's not performance part. But yet there are many have beat crap out of it without failure.
888mustang
Well-Known Member
Reply to FordTechOne
First, Thank you for the SSM on my exhaust it described my problem exactly. As I have said I am a Auto Tech 35+ years,I have access to TSBs but not SSMs.
Just want to assure that this is a REAL problem,I can tell a drive line vibration from a tire vibration by feel without a vibration analyzer and have diagnosed hundreds of vibrations in my career.
On my car I have clocked the rear drive shaft to pinion flange mounting 5 different positions (after it was replaced) and it makes a HUGE difference!!
The yellow match marks are not lined up now it vibrates when they are lined up,now it is moved 2 positions clock wise.
As I said thanks for the SSM I appreciate it,but lets try to help people on here this is a REAL problem.
First, Thank you for the SSM on my exhaust it described my problem exactly. As I have said I am a Auto Tech 35+ years,I have access to TSBs but not SSMs.
Just want to assure that this is a REAL problem,I can tell a drive line vibration from a tire vibration by feel without a vibration analyzer and have diagnosed hundreds of vibrations in my career.
On my car I have clocked the rear drive shaft to pinion flange mounting 5 different positions (after it was replaced) and it makes a HUGE difference!!
The yellow match marks are not lined up now it vibrates when they are lined up,now it is moved 2 positions clock wise.
As I said thanks for the SSM I appreciate it,but lets try to help people on here this is a REAL problem.
scram99
Member
- Joined
- May 7, 2016
- Threads
- 0
- Messages
- 11
- Reaction score
- 3
- Location
- South Point, Ohio
- First Name
- Ed
- Vehicle(s)
- 2016 Mustang GT Premium Convertible 6A
^^^^^^^Yes!
As I stated in a previous post, according to ths SM at my dealer, he was told by the Ford engineer that they are aware this is a problem, and as such they are changing something about the driveshafts, supposedly why it will take 6 weeks(now 5ish) to get mine in. AGAIN, THAT IS ALL THE INFO THEY HAVE TOLD ME. As far as what they are doing different, what the analizer showed(it did show an issue), I don't know yet. People questioned the heck out of that post in disbelief, which I don't get since when I first posted people wanted all the follow up info as to what the dealer found since we are all experiencing a similar issue, so I reorted what I was told by the dealer. Instead of berrating people, let's admit there IS a problem, and be glad that Ford is apparently aware of it and or trying to fix it.
As far as peoples opinion on Fords poor quality control, they are allowed to have that opinion, I for one agree, as I am constantly snapping plastic panels back into place, my cooled drivers seat has stopped working twice, the cowl shake on my car is worse than my 06 and 08 vert, and various other little annoying things that just shouldnt happen on 2016 $48,000 car. All problems I have read about on this forum. So I don't feel the need to PROVE my problems to anyone, I have owned 5 Mustangs, at least 20 other cars, and IN MY OPINION, the S550s are just poorly manufactured, if you don't agree with that, that's ok, but since you didn't buy it for me, I will continure to give my opinion my car...end rant, thanks....
888mustang
Well-Known Member
Yes that is interesting,I used to fix or make better the vibration on mid 90s Chevy S-10 pick ups with a 2 piece drive shaft by using washers to shim the carrier bearing. Chevy did make a updated 2 piece drive shaft to fix it but they were in the $1500-$2000 dollar range and our customers didn't want to spend the money.
FordTechOne
Well-Known Member
You are welcome sir, I'm glad the SSM was helpful to you! :cheers:
Nice work on isolating the vibration in your car to the driveshaft and clocking it to reduce the vibration, that's very good information and may certainly help people who are experiencing a driveline related vibration.
The issue I see here is that others have had their dealer's replace and/or clock their drivesahfts, and they claim the vibration is still present. That means one of two things - we aren't all talking about the same vibration, or the vibration they are feeling is a normal characteristic of the vehicle that they have convinced themselves is an issue.
The other issue seems to be that dealer's aren't doing their due diligence in diagnosing these vehicles. If they replace parts based on the customer's complaint and not based on a verified concern with readings, that is doing everyone a disservice. It seems that a lot of dealers also don't have the vibration analyzer, which makes it impossible to isolate the source of the issue.
For people that have a vibration concern and bring their car to the dealer, I would strongly suggest finding a new dealer if the one you're bringing it to doesn't have a vibration analyzer. As we've seen in this thread, the chance of a dealer correctly repairing the vehicle on the first attempt without any diagnostic readings is not very good.
Sponsored
