Twin Turbo V6 Project

[zackmd1]

Interesting placement for the air intakes! Is that flexible hose connecting them to the turbo?

Please do keep us updated on the MPT tuning process! I hope they will officially offer an FI tune. Preferably one under $500 but one can only dream....

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[kodypiccirilli]

Interesting placement for the air intakes! Is that flexible hose connecting them to the turbo?

Please do keep us updated on the MPT tuning process! I hope they will officially offer an FI tune. Preferably one under $500 but one can only dream....

Yes it does connect to the turbos. MPT has a "supercharger/turbocharger" forced induction tune available for purchase now, which they can then tune remotely through datalogs (assuming there are no major issues). The tune is $600. I will keep you guys updated..

 

[zackmd1]

Yes it does connect to the turbos. MPT has a "supercharger/turbocharger" forced induction tune available for purchase now, which they can then tune remotely through datalogs (assuming there are no major issues). The tune is $600. I will keep you guys updated..

Missed the supercharger tune on their website! $600 is a bit steep but I guess you have to pay to play....

 

[kodypiccirilli]

Here is another quick update, I have already uploaded all of these pictures here on my thread, but keeping in touch my with YouTube subscribers. SSM and MPT are currently working on the remote tuning process.

[ame]

 

[zackmd1]

Any updates on the tuning front?

 

[kodypiccirilli]

Any updates on the tuning front?

Just started boosted tuning within the last few days. No issues so far, just a very slow process. I looked at the first boosted datalog and with the boost controller set for lowest possible boost, the boost gauge on the in-car screen read about 6psi but datalog showed aboout 7-8psi with a somewhat linear increase and a small spike in boost from 1500rpm-4000rpm. (The WOT test was only conducted until 4000rpm) Saying, this im sure the turbos can hold boost for longer than 4000rpm.

 

[kodypiccirilli]

Here is a small WOT in 3rd gear datalog only showing Boost (Blue), RPM (Gold), and Vehicle Speed (Purple). Boost looks to be immediate and linear until peak. Testing has not been conducted past 4500 rpm. Here are some quotes from Tom at SSM and Mike at MPT.

Tom: "Latest datalogs. 8-9PSI appears to be the boost limit with the boost controller as its currently set on lowest boost level. Pretty linear boost rate increase until it hits 8-9PSI then constant boost. Car drives pretty good even with the very conservative timing." and If you look at the boost curves, under WOT, you start seeing boost immediately were go WOT rolling at 2000RPM. Boost curve shows almost linear gradual increase to where they make peak boost of 8PSI around 400RPM. Holds about 8 PSI to 4500RPM. Mike won’t let us do any testing above 4500RPM yet.

In normal driving, itss easy to get 2-5PSI under partial throttle. Its gonna be really fun to drive start car when tuning is done. If you want more power, turn up the boost, these turbos will prolly make almost 20PSI on a 3.7 if you unleash them with the boost controller. Right now, as you wanted, we are trying to keep the boost levels down, and 8PSI is as low as we can go with the TurboSmart boost controller.

There are electronic boost controllers that allow more tuning of the boost curve, but right now, the TurboSmart is working good for what we want to do."

Mike: “That does look better on KR.
I’m hoping to see a major improvement on fuel trims, if not this might need to be on the dyno to finish wot tuning. Not having the simple maf setup is the key.

I’ve adjusted for the little KR that was there.

I saw the throttle but the pedal matches those points and is exasperated by the touchy throttle response. I made some changes, but you might be working with a choice of response or steady conditions.

Rev limiter is opened up but only take the wot pull to 5500.

-Mike”

 

[kodypiccirilli]

Intercooler placement with front bunper installed

 

[kodypiccirilli]

Cannot get the fuel trims properly adjusted through remote tuning. Car is being transferred to MPT next weekend so the tuning process can be finished on their dyno...

 

[kodypiccirilli]

Here is another graph of the RPM (brown), load (orange), and boost (blue). This WOT test was done to 5500 rpm's and as you can see the boost curve remains linear then stays pretty constant before dropping down just a little bit.

Car is currently at MPT in Florida finalizing the tune. Mike said he will need about a week to finish up, considering Thanksgiving and Black Friday are this week, they will be closed which means the car will be ready sometime next week.

 

[Fuse]

I know it is superfluous but I'd sure like to see the dyno numbers once MPT is done tuning. Last time I checked your thread you just finished mounting your turbos and now you're about to cross the finish line. Can't wait to see the end results.

 

[kodypiccirilli]

Car is currently with Mike at MPT for tuning. We have run into the issue of the BOV sticking open and leaking boost. Here are some messages from Mike of the situation as well as the dyno chart with numbers from this:

I strapped the car to the dyno today.
First hit was much lower on power than expected. 300hp
Reviewing the log it was only 5psi and pretty low on spark.
2nd hit basically no boost and 234hp.

Now I have to figure out why it is not making boost. Trace the hoses for the wastegates, manual boost controller etc.

Sounds good, but no power yet.

I don’t know anything more than this as of now.

I’ll probably start with bypassing the boost controller and going straight off of wastegate spring pressure.
Good news, the blow off valve is sticking open.

I had first checked wastegate crack pressure and everything was fine there, went to test again and a second set of eyes spotted it.

I’ll update you again after I inspect it.

Great news, we are back to making boost.
Tested the wastegates direct with hand pump, tested with the manual boost controller and all worked as it should.
BOV does leak, that is for sure and it’s also open at idle and cruise which means it needs a stiffer spring. Ideally you want the spring to match the idle vacuum which is around 18 in hg on this setup. On the leak, you should be able to apply handpump vacuum and the pressure hold, on my bov this happens as it should be performing the same test on this car’s bov the vacuum never builds, it leaks as soon as you pump. I do not know if you guys want to send me a replacement or talk to jodair on this. Might be able to send a replacement with the stiffer spring and fix both items at once. That will need to happen asap though, so we can change it and do the idle adjustments necessary. I’m basically tuning with a vacuum leak and then going from open at idle to closed at idle will require more data logging.

The current operation is functional, open at idle, closed under boost and open again remaining open until boosted again.
The issue is that at times closed throttle vacuum, fluctuates due to different cam profiles active at the moment. If you have a spring matching max idle vacuum it provides a more consistent setup and in my opinion a smoother setup.

The attachment shows the first hit, the 2nd hit and the half hit after troubleshooting. On the half hit, I had lowered the manual boost control to the minimum setting bypassing it completely. This is the boost you will make off of wastegate spring only. As you can see it makes boost pretty quick at low rpm. This is the scary part of this setup, torque is so fast it’s going to hit hard similar to nitrous.
(ignore airfuel ratio on the chart, the data log has wideband lambda, the dyno does not so it reads a flat 16 meaning it’s not connected.)

I did some comparison and the torque level on that is similar to a procharger but much much sooner. It’s going to feel very nice on the road like this.

This is still early in the tuning phase so don’t take those graphs for final. Might be more, might be less depending on boost, spark and the logs.

As of now I have reset the boost controller to 4 clicks as it was prior to testing.

 

[fordguys550]

cant wait till the tuning is done! gunna be awesome!!!!!

 

[kodypiccirilli]

We are at a standstill until we get a new BOV shipped. Mike did some testing, on the graph below, the dark green curve is the boost in a WOT dyno pull on wastegate only pressure. The light blue curve is the TurboSmart manual boost controller, controlled pressure.

As you can see, the boost controller definitely helps spool the turbos alot quicker, but does not help improve any in the higher RPM's. I have purchased the TurboSmart eBoost Street electronic boost controller. It is to be delivered in about a week... :frusty: This is just the cost of having a "R&D" type of project car of this level. Hopefully we can get the car before Christmas lol.

 

[kodypiccirilli]

End of day update. (12/6/16)
Spent the entire day on the dyno today with this car. Current best is 338hp and 353tq. Issues to report as follows:

On all the logs I’ve seen, before arriving here as well as on the dyno here. Boost falls off at higher rpm. Usually 4500 or 5000.
This is likely because the wastegates being used are designed to work in conjunction with the factory electronic boost controller which varies airflow to the wastegate allowing it to not dump all boost at higher rpm.

Having a manual boost controller diverts air away from the wastegate allowing it to crack open at a higher boost level. This is where my previous recommendation of an electronic boost controller came into play.

With an electronic boost controller we can fine tune the boost curve and hold the 8-10psi rather than it falling off.


To help you decide, currently at 4000 rpm we are seeing some nice torque on 93 octane. 353ft-lbs at 8psi but at 6500 boost falls off to 6psi and hp is only at 300hp.
For comparison, the 15 procharger setup makes the same torque at 4000rpm but boost keeps rising to around 10psi at 6000 and it makes 400hp.

It’s not all negative, the torque comes on much faster on this setup than the procharger and will be faster feeling as well as faster driving. The issue is higher rpm and lack of boost.

My concerns as of now:
-Can we hold boost flat all the way to redline on the existing setup?
-Is the leaking bov affecting this at all or is it strictly a wastegate/boost controller issue.
-Are the air filters too small and choking boost at higher rpm?
-Another option is to increase the preload on the wastegate actuator.
-There is a possibility that we change these things and boost still falls off telling us we likely have a leak somewhere and will require a smoke test.

On the bov, I suggest talking to the manufacturer and confirming it should hold vacuum when manually tested. I have a never used this brand. My turbosmart race port holds vacuum as I would expect. The other issue is the spring doesn’t match vacuum. It seems like a lower spring pressure that might be used on a supercharged setup rather than turbo. This is another question for them, what is the default spring and what vacuum is it rated for. You want it to match idle vacuum so the piston is able to close at idle and cruise.

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