Stock Rod Limit

[TheZman]

Agreed...Ford did not design the Ecoboost as a ultimate performance motor...it was designed to provide reasonable gas mileage...and reasonable power for most daily driving choirs...

It's a wonderful engine...but...it will never have the tuning flexibility of the 5.0 V8...

I've owned several vehicles powered by highly modified Roush V8's...my 2015 Ecoboost Mustang will never be in the same league ...even if I spent 5K...or more...in performance enhancements...

So then why is FORD racing hard at work at making performance mods for the Ecoboost as we speak if they had no intention on it being a performance vehicle? They will have a tune out my the end of summer that increases the torque levels 33%.. i wouldnt think you need 100ft more torque for just a daily driver..Lol

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[neodark]

I was asked to come in and chime, I really don't have much time to read the full thread but I was told people were getting scared their motors are going to fail soon as they hit 400tq.

I will tell you right now, that is not the case. We have made 236 dyno pulls on our EBM mustang and it only has 500 miles on it, about 50 of those were driven on the street. I'm pretty comfortable saying that 90% of those dyno pulls were over 400ft/lbs of torque.

I can say safely that the stock turbo is maxed out at 330whp and 420wtq. Any gains to be had over that will require intercooler and intercooler piping, which as some of you know we are developing now and posted updates today. The car cannot safely make over 330whp and push over 25psi with the stock intercooler. Our car was seeing 150°+ charge air temps (NOT AIR INTAKE TEMPS) during a pull, which is causing the car to restrict power. With the intercooler upgrade you will see gains from keeping charge temps down definitely but you are mostly going to see those gains before the hp/tq crossover.

Once we finalize all bolt ons that can be utilized with the factory turbo, we will be throwing our turbo kit on the car and looking to see what we can do with the stock block safely. So no need to be scared, you aren't going to be windowing your block anytime soon if you choose your upgrade path wisely.

A lot of tuners are new to this platform and definitely need to be aware that this ECU does not follow standard tuning protocol. There are MANY compensation tables that the ECU pulls from during wide open throttle, you have to be very careful when tuning timing that is for sure! Cobb allows for very thorough tuning, I hope SCT offers similar maps for the end users sake.

AMEN!!! Not that this is the main point but honestly anybody planning to do any big mods to ANY turbo car should upgrade the Intercooler as one of there first Mods!

Either way, more reinforcement in my book that upgrading the FMIC is not "overkill"

(Mine is awaiting install, first mod on the car).

 

[LeonBorden]

This car is begging for meth...

 

[neodark]

This car is begging for meth...

Sorry, couldn't resist. Man, I miss that show

 

[greg hazlett]

lol...

 

[mbreinin]

So, everyone thinks you need 420 RWTQ to break a rod? When do they start bending? When does a piston fail? The rods are light and thin. The pistons, despite their oil squirters, steel ring package and special coating, are cast. Never once have I read that they were forged.

It is very hard to quantify when and how an engine will fail.

Mike

 

[HoustonMustang]

So then why is FORD racing hard at work at making performance mods for the Ecoboost as we speak if they had no intention on it being a performance vehicle? They will have a tune out my the end of summer that increases the torque levels 33%.. i wouldnt think you need 100ft more torque for just a daily driver..Lol

No doubt a properly tuned Ecoboost will be quicker...but it I will never make the power of a fully tuned V8...and it was never intended to compete with the potential of a fully tuned V8 vehicle...

If a individual wishes to own a performance Mustang...a GT with supercharger is the ticket...

The GT350...and the rumored GT500 are my ideas of OEM performance Mustangs...

But...I do love my Ecoboost...it's a great cruiser for my daily chores...and I'm sure a few performance mods would make it even more enjoyable!

 

[Evil87GN]

So, everyone thinks you need 420 RWTQ to break a rod? When do they start bending? When does a piston fail? The rods are light and thin. The pistons, despite their oil squirters, steel ring package and special coating, are cast. Never once have I read that they were forged.

It is very hard to quantify when and how an engine will fail.

Mike

Same thing happened in the '11-'14 V6 community when people started boosting them. We had a few that failed at just over 400 rwhp, others held for a while at 550+ while being beaten hard on a road course. Never know when an engine is going to say eff it, I'm done....lol. All it takes is one hiccup and poof, game over. Fortunately, most of the tuners out there know what is needed to extract great hp/tq without pushing the envelope too hard.

 

[superblur]

No doubt a properly tuned Ecoboost will be quicker...but it I will never make the power of a fully tuned V8...and it was never intended to compete with the potential of a fully tuned V8 vehicle...

If a individual wishes to own a performance Mustang...a GT with supercharger is the ticket...

The GT350...and the rumored GT500 are my ideas of OEM performance Mustangs...

But...I do love my Ecoboost...it's a great cruiser for my daily chores...and I'm sure a few performance mods would make it even more enjoyable!

Second time this has been said in this thread... What makes people think that the ecoboost isnt capable of putting up numbers a v8 can? All it would take is money and you could have an 800 hp 4 cylinder. The main hurdle of the ecoboost will be fuel, but once that gets figured out it will be down to what the block can hold before cracking.

From what it looks like this engine is designed extremely well. The twin scroll manifold right off the heads will make having a big turbo on the streets much more bearable because of the reduced lag. I dont think a 600rwhp ecoboost with decent around-town manners is out of the question. I'm actually very excited to see where people can take this motor in the next couple of years.

 

[04SloSnake]

Even if that's the case... That the rods will break around 430 ft lbs... That's 70 lbs more than an evo x will take before it breaks them, and 429 more than it takes to bust a ring land on a EJ25, haha

I've been think the same thing while reading this thread. What exactly did people expect? Find me one stock 4 cylinder motor that can hold 400+/400+ to the tire for the long haul and I will contemplate canceling my order.

People seem to hear the word "forged" and think they can throw the world at it and it will laugh. There is a reason Livernois's first engine product was rods and why FFTEC is running their upgraded rods in their EFR turbo setup. Lets be a little more humble and realistic when it come to the EB potential. It's there, but there will be some trial and error along the way.

Brian, thanks for the information. Looking forward to some big numbers once it is put back together. When I pick my car up next summer in Wichita I might have to stop by and have you guys throw some parts on.

 

[HoustonMustang]

Second time this has been said in this thread... What makes people think that the ecoboost isnt capable of putting up numbers a v8 can? All it would take is money and you could have an 800 hp 4 cylinder. The main hurdle of the ecoboost will be fuel, but once that gets figured out it will be down to what the block can hold before cracking

And why not spend the money on the real thing...developing a 800 HP Ecoboost...what's the purpose?

I'll take a OEM GT500 when it arrives...thank you!

 

[LeonBorden]

Admittedly, I made 460awhp for 18 months or so on a 6 bolt 4G63 with 150k miles back 10 years ago. But outside of that engine, no stock four cylinder I know of reliability can make over 400 on the stock unopened engine. SR20s have legend status, yet consistently break at 300hp. Maybe with a large turbo and CAMS... We'll be able to shift the power curve to the right some and make around 400 or 450 reliably while keeping torque below 380ish.

 

[LeonBorden]

And why not spend the money on the real thing...developing a 800 HP Ecoboost...what's the purpose?

I'll take a OEM GT500 when it arrives...thank you!

The real thing? You're making assumptions that all of us enjoy the same thing in our vehicles. GT500s are an extra 30k... Comparing the two is idiocy.

 

[l2frankie]

Admittedly, I made 460awhp for 18 months or so on a 6 bolt 4G63 with 150k miles back 10 years ago. But outside of that engine, no stock four cylinder I know of reliability can make over 400 on the stock unopened engine. SR20s have legend status, yet consistently break at 300hp. Maybe with a large turbo and CAMS... We'll be able to shift the power curve to the right some and make around 400 or 450 reliably while keeping torque below 380ish.

didnt even think of that

 

[HoustonMustang]

The real thing? You're making assumptions that all of us enjoy the same thing in our vehicles. GT500s are an extra 30k... Comparing the two is idiocy.

The cost of developing a 800 HP Ecoboost street engine...and making the proper chassis modifications to safely handle 800 HP would easily cost 30K...or more...

But you are correct...an 800 HP Ecoboost is idiocy...

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