Stock Rod Limit

[cosmo]

I'm glad RIP Tuning pushed their car the way they did. They went out looking for the limit, and found it. That's customer appreciation. Finding the limits before a customer does. Could they work on their tune to pull back boost to make similar power? Sure, I'm sure they'd love to improve their tune as well. Still, credit is due, they threw a rod and want everyone to know how it happened so you can prevent it from happening to your own EBM. :cheers:

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[LeonBorden]

Even if that's the case... That the rods will break around 430 ft lbs... That's 70 lbs more than an evo x will take before it breaks them, and 429 more than it takes to bust a ring land on a EJ25, haha

 

[l2frankie]

I was asked to come in and chime, I really don't have much time to read the full thread but I was told people were getting scared their motors are going to fail soon as they hit 400tq.

I will tell you right now, that is not the case. We have made 236 dyno pulls on our EBM mustang and it only has 500 miles on it, about 50 of those were driven on the street. I'm pretty comfortable saying that 90% of those dyno pulls were over 400ft/lbs of torque.

I can say safely that the stock turbo is maxed out at 330whp and 420wtq. Any gains to be had over that will require intercooler and intercooler piping, which as some of you know we are developing now and posted updates today. The car cannot safely make over 330whp and push over 25psi with the stock intercooler. Our car was seeing 150°+ charge air temps (NOT AIR INTAKE TEMPS) during a pull, which is causing the car to restrict power. With the intercooler upgrade you will see gains from keeping charge temps down definitely but you are mostly going to see those gains before the hp/tq crossover.

Once we finalize all bolt ons that can be utilized with the factory turbo, we will be throwing our turbo kit on the car and looking to see what we can do with the stock block safely. So no need to be scared, you aren't going to be windowing your block anytime soon if you choose your upgrade path wisely.

A lot of tuners are new to this platform and definitely need to be aware that this ECU does not follow standard tuning protocol. There are MANY compensation tables that the ECU pulls from during wide open throttle, you have to be very careful when tuning timing that is for sure! Cobb allows for very thorough tuning, I hope SCT offers similar maps for the end users sake.

sounds great to have you guys come in a chime. was kind of scared but it does make sense that it could of been over heating problems since they had a stock IC with high boost. assuming everything was done right i wonder whats the max HP/TQ this puppy can make before a bigger turbo

 

[TheZman]

I'm glad RIP Tuning pushed their car the way they did. They went out looking for the limit, and found it. That's customer appreciation. Finding the limits before a customer does. Could they work on their tune to pull back boost to make similar power? Sure, I'm sure they'd love to improve their tune as well. Still, credit is due, they threw a rod and want everyone to know how it happened so you can prevent it from happening to your own EBM. :cheers:

Yep props to them for posting it! But what was the limit. Dont really sound like they found the power limit. More like the HEAT limit...
http://www.mustang6g.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[l2frankie]

i wonder how the dyno looked before the car went kaboom

 

[15GTBEN]

Thats all the FORD factory warranty last too! But lets be honest once you start modding performance cars for big power things can go wrong. Ask drag racers there blowing up and repairing crap all the time. Pay to play no matter what engine your running! Name of the power game.

Ford factory powertrain warranty is 5/60

The ford racing warranty is a supplemental warranty that kicks in if the ford racing part is deemed the source of a failure.

 

[BGolden]

I was asked to come in and chime, I really don't have much time to read the full thread but I was told people were getting scared their motors are going to fail soon as they hit 400tq.

I will tell you right now, that is not the case. We have made 236 dyno pulls on our EBM mustang and it only has 500 miles on it, about 50 of those were driven on the street. I'm pretty comfortable saying that 90% of those dyno pulls were over 400ft/lbs of torque.

I can say safely that the stock turbo is maxed out at 330whp and 420wtq. Any gains to be had over that will require intercooler and intercooler piping, which as some of you know we are developing now and posted updates today. The car cannot safely make over 330whp and push over 25psi with the stock intercooler. Our car was seeing 150°+ charge air temps (NOT AIR INTAKE TEMPS) during a pull, which is causing the car to restrict power. With the intercooler upgrade you will see gains from keeping charge temps down definitely but you are mostly going to see those gains before the hp/tq crossover.

Once we finalize all bolt ons that can be utilized with the factory turbo, we will be throwing our turbo kit on the car and looking to see what we can do with the stock block safely. So no need to be scared, you aren't going to be windowing your block anytime soon if you choose your upgrade path wisely.

A lot of tuners are new to this platform and definitely need to be aware that this ECU does not follow standard tuning protocol. There are MANY compensation tables that the ECU pulls from during wide open throttle, you have to be very careful when tuning timing that is for sure! Cobb allows for very thorough tuning, I hope SCT offers similar maps for the end users sake.

First off let me thank you for posting in my thread and commenting on my tune which you have seen no data logs from. Its always easy to arm chair quarter back on Tuesday or in this case Weds.

I posted earlier we were trying to go 11's in a full interior and exhaust car before TX2K on stock motor and turbo.

I do have to give a shout out to Livernois and FFtec as both companies were very professional and trying to help us get a rod and piston combo for our new block.

 

[greg hazlett]

Oops ya your right..Lol i must have been thinking of a different warranty.

Bumper to bumper is 3 yr/36k.

 

[EcoSnake]

I have been a little quiet on here the last few months as we got moved into our new shop and got settled as well as Ecoboost Mustang testing.

I have been testing our EB shop car hard lately and pushing it as far as possible, and unfortunately a little too far. It lost a rod at 420 ft/lbs. I wanted to share this information with the forum so that others will not experience the same loss I did.

We will be pulling the motor over the next few days and preparing a new more robust one to power our car. It's going to be nice not to worry about that bottom end anymore.

I will try to answer any questions you guys may have.

Sorry for your loss. Hope you get it up and running again soon.

 

[TheZman]

Bumper to bumper is 3 yr/36k.

Lol.. I know.. Thats why i was thinking that. it should all just be the same less confusion!

 

[ScottyP3821]

First off let me thank you for posting in my thread and commenting on my tune which you have seen no data logs from. Its always easy to arm chair quarter back on Tuesday or in this case Weds.

I posted earlier we were trying to go 11's in a full interior and exhaust car before TX2K on stock motor and turbo.

I do have to give a shout out to Livernois and FFtec as both companies were very professional and trying to help us get a rod and piston combo for our new block.

Duuuude STFU its a forum for people to post and comment in. Don't get so defensive when another shop is doing R&D as well. You claim your OP was for the good of the community when you yourself (part of the community) bitch when another person (in the community) states their findings. Go look at MAPerformance and look at how many platforms they tune based off similar technology as the EB also go look at Cobb and do the same. No one is bashing you. We just need to be proactive this early on to support each other and learn. You getting all bent out of shape will quickly kill your business.

 

[MAPerformance]

First off let me thank you for posting in my thread and commenting on my tune which you have seen no data logs from. Its always easy to arm chair quarter back on Tuesday or in this case Weds.

I posted earlier we were trying to go 11's in a full interior and exhaust car before TX2K on stock motor and turbo.

I do have to give a shout out to Livernois and FFtec as both companies were very professional and trying to help us get a rod and piston combo for our new block.

I apologize, I was linked to the thread and didn't even read the very first post or the poster. I honestly thought someone was asking what the stock rod limit was when I read the title. Was just told people were scared about their engine failing when they shouldn't be. You admitted you were pushing it and it let loose, this doesn't mean everybody that makes 420wtq is going to pop their motor.

Sorry about your luck, we are also willing to help you out if needed. I have a complete spare longblock I can give you Ford's cost on if needed.

 

[Ron@cp-e]

I apologize, I was linked to the thread and didn't even read the very first post or the poster. I honestly thought someone was asking what the stock rod limit was when I read the title. Was just told people were scared about their engine failing when they shouldn't be. You admitted you were pushing it and it let loose, this doesn't mean everybody that makes 420wtq is going to pop their motor.

Sorry about your luck, we are also willing to help you out if needed. I have a complete spare longblock I can give you Ford's cost on if needed.

that's a solid offer and I just became a MAP fanboy
seriously, great posts and info from MAP

thanks!

 

[HoustonMustang]

But at that point why not just buy a GT and the blower?

Would still be under warranty...I believe the Ecoboost is great for tuners...but with this limit on the motor it will hinder its sales to that % of people that want to buy this car for that reason.

Agreed...Ford did not design the Ecoboost as a ultimate performance motor...it was designed to provide reasonable gas mileage...and reasonable power for most daily driving choirs...

It's a wonderful engine...but...it will never have the tuning flexibility of the 5.0 V8...

I've owned several vehicles powered by highly modified Roush V8's...my 2015 Ecoboost Mustang will never be in the same league ...even if I spent 5K...or more...in performance enhancements...

 

[Ron@cp-e]

Agreed...Ford did not design the Ecoboost as a ultimate performance motor...it was designed to provide reasonable gas mileage...and reasonable power for most daily driving choirs...

It's a wonderful engine...but...it will never have the tuning flexibility of the 5.0 V8...

I've owned several vehicles powered by highly modified Roush V8's...my 2015 Ecoboost Mustang will never be in the same league ...even if I spent 5K...or more...in performance enhancements...

:ford:
I wouldn't be too sure of that

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