Staggered or not

[daSNAK3]

I have always ran staggered on all my Mustangs.. looks so much better with some fat ass tires on the rear. Nobody can convince me otherwise

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[JohnnyGT]

I have always ran staggered on all my Mustangs.. looks so much better with some fat ass tires on the rear. Nobody can convince me otherwise

Have two sets. I fully agree

 

[Rapid Red]

You missed the sarcasm in my statement and the previous ones. We are actually in agreement

I like it, that's the trouble with web forums, we cannot see our faces.

 

[Ewheels]

My initial reaction to this thread was to call certain people out and say "you're an idiot" but ultimately that doesn't help anyone learn and puts people on the defensive.

There's one major reason why most street sports cars come staggered and that is to intentionally induce understeer. It has been studied and proven over and over that a car that understeers is safer for your average driver on the street.
Ford is not in the business of making awesome handling sports cars or any car manufacturer for that matter. They are in the business of making money and Mustangs just happen to be one of their products to allow them to make money. Yes, they want to make the car handle well and they market it as such but they also have to consider liability and future sales. If they made Mustangs handle like real race cars, average drivers would be crashing left and right and Ford would be drowning in lawsuits and lost sales. It just makes more sense business-wise to make the car understeer at the limit rather than swing around you.

Staggered vs square for cornering purposes also largely depends on weight balance. The Mustang NEEDS a square setup to properly turn because it is so front heavy. Porsches, Corvettes, etc don't have nearly the same front-heavy weight balance so a staggered setup suits them better. That being said, they too are inducing understeer for their street cars so the claim that "X car is a track car and it comes staggered so staggered must be the way to go" is illogical because again, they are street cars.

If you want to understand tire size decisions of staggered vs square for the purpose of taking a corner as fast as possible, you need to look at actual race cars, not any street car on the market.
Even then, there are still many other factors to consider: driver style, aero balance, weight balance, etc. Quick example: the S550 Shelbys are marketed as track cars but still come staggerd yet the FP350S factory, non-street-legal, track car is squared.

Summary for the S550 Mustang (any version): it has been proven over and over that square is the way to go for cornering. Any enthusiast who actually competes and is competitive with a Mustang is square.



Last point: I see no practical, objective reason to get staggered for street purposes. The main argument I've seen for staggered is that "it looks better" but does it really?? If the rear looks good with a large tire, why can't the front also look good with an equally large tire?

 

[Rapid Red]

My initial reaction to this thread was to call certain people out and say "you're an idiot" but ultimately that doesn't help anyone learn and puts people on the defensive.

There's one major reason why most street sports cars come staggered and that is to intentionally induce understeer. It has been studied and proven over and over that a car that understeers is safer for your average driver on the street.
Ford is not in the business of making awesome handling sports cars or any car manufacturer for that matter. They are in the business of making money and Mustangs just happen to be one of their products to allow them to make money. Yes, they want to make the car handle well and they market it as such but they also have to consider liability and future sales. If they made Mustangs handle like real race cars, average drivers would be crashing left and right and Ford would be drowning in lawsuits and lost sales. It just makes more sense business-wise to make the car understeer at the limit rather than swing around you.

Staggered vs square for cornering purposes also largely depends on weight balance. The Mustang NEEDS a square setup to properly turn because it is so front heavy. Porsches, Corvettes, etc don't have nearly the same front-heavy weight balance so a staggered setup suits them better. That being said, they too are inducing understeer for their street cars so the claim that "X car is a track car and it comes staggered so staggered must be the way to go" is illogical because again, they are street cars.

If you want to understand tire size decisions of staggered vs square for the purpose of taking a corner as fast as possible, you need to look at actual race cars, not any street car on the market.
Even then, there are still many other factors to consider: driver style, aero balance, weight balance, etc. Quick example: the S550 Shelbys are marketed as track cars but still come staggerd yet the FP350S factory, non-street-legal, track car is squared.

Summary for the S550 Mustang (any version): it has been proven over and over that square is the way to go for cornering. Any enthusiast who actually competes and is competitive with a Mustang is square.



Last point: I see no practical, objective reason to get staggered for street purposes. The main argument I've seen for staggered is that "it looks better" but does it really?? If the rear looks good with a large tire, why can't the front look also look good with an equally large tire?

Well for one reason, cannot get an 11" rim up front without Spacers and I'm totally against those.

You do not state the rim size for your fact check
"the FP350S factory, non-street-legal, track car is squared."

 

[Ewheels]

Well for one reason, cannot get an 11" rim up front without Spacers and I'm totally against those.

You do not state the rim size for your fact check
"the FP350S factory, non-street-legal, track car is squared."

"Well for one reason, cannot get an 11" rim wheel up front without Spacers and I'm totally against those."
- that is not true. You just need the correct offset. A 19x11 or 18x11 wheel with a ~25mm offset will fit perfectly fine without a spacer.
- secondly, your fear of spacers is misguided as well. Bolt on spacers (second pair of studs) are dangerous and yes, should be avoided. Slip on spacers (utilizing longer studs) are perfectly fine and have been used by hobbyists and professional race teams for decades. It makes no difference whether the wheel has a smaller offset or a slip on spacer is used.

"You do not state the rim wheel size for your fact check"
-

Note the 275 tires are just for delivery of the car. It is intended to be used with 18x11 wheels F/R.
And I know this will also be brought up...the 18x11 wheels are listed as optional in case you want to use/buy your own favorite wheels

 

[luc]

Well for one reason, cannot get an 11" rim up front without Spacers and I'm totally against those.

You do not state the rim size for your fact check
"the FP350S factory, non-street-legal, track car is squared."

Can you explain the technical reasons why you’re against bolt-through spacers?

 

[NightmareMoon]

Well for one reason, cannot get an 11" rim up front without Spacers and I'm totally against those.

You do not state the rim size for your fact check
"the FP350S factory, non-street-legal, track car is squared."

Apex sells 11” wide ET 26 wheels (a few of them), so there you go, no spacers

 

[rpinkstn]

I purchased new wheels and tires for my wife's '17 GT just a couple of weeks ago. I debated back and forth for weeks on the subject of staggered vs square. I hadn't made up my mind yet then one day we were out and about together and a really awesome looking ruby red S550 blew past us on the freeway (we were in my 4Runner). My wife and I both commented one how good it looked. Then she added, "I really like that stance!" Of course the car was lowered with staggered wheels. Her comment helped me decide to just go for it and buy a staggered wheel and tire setup for her car. She's really happy with the look. Will I regret it when the tires start to wear enough to be rotated? - Probably. But it's a Mustang, not a minivan. It's my wife's "fun" car. It's also a garage queen so hopefully it will be a while before they would need to be rotated or, in this case, replaced. I certainly acknowledge the practicality of a square setup and I've seen plenty of really good looking Mustangs with square setups. I just decided to prioritize the appearance over the practicality this time. All that to say (to the OP), I suppose it depends on your priorities, how much you drive it, and how deep your pockets are (my pockets are pretty dang shallow!).

 

[luc]

As for why some people think that a staggered set up look good, has to be for that drag racing/street racing look
Very few people are into ultimate handling

 

[Ewheels]

I purchased new wheels and tires for my wife's '17 GT just a couple of weeks ago. I debated back and forth for weeks on the subject of staggered vs square. I hadn't made up my mind yet then one day we were out and about together and a really awesome looking ruby red S550 blew past us on the freeway (we were in my 4Runner). My wife and I both commented one how good it looked. Then she added, "I really like that stance!" Of course the car was lowered with staggered wheels. Her comment helped me decide to just go for it and buy a staggered wheel and tire setup for her car. She's really happy with the look. Will I regret it when the tires start to wear enough to be rotated? - Probably. But it's a Mustang, not a minivan. It's my wife's "fun" car. It's also a garage queen so hopefully it will be a while before they would need to be rotated or, in this case, replaced.

This is the exact scenario that confuses me. So you're saying you could in fact tell that the front wheels were narrower than the rear wheels as it drove passed?
Maybe it's just me, but looking at a car from the side, I cannot tell if the rear wheels are 1 inch wider than the fronts. If it's a drag car and has fat and skinnies on the car, that's understandable but a 10" front compared to an 11" rear seems hardly visually noticeable.

 

[MCS]

If you like to race stop light to stop light, go staggered. If you like to carve corners go square.

^ This.

Looks? Go for what you want.
If you prefer function over fashion than use the above guidelines.

 

[K4fxd]

Very few people are into ultimate handling

But if you don't put Cup 2's on your street car you might as well buy a Prius LOL

 

[Ewheels]

But if you don't put Cup 2's on your street car you might as well buy a Prius LOL

these folks annoy me so much. When someone says they only use Cup 2's, I know they're a newbie. There's better options in every aspect.

 

[coz0502]

I have a staggered set up that I like and am not going to enter the debate on which is better. But I want to ask the others, do you really think rotating is that important? Before you answer, hear me out. I'm running 285/35/19 front and 305/35/19 rear. Last time I purchased the front were just under $300 each and the back were about $330 each, so $1,300 in tires.

Without being able to rotate, I'm going through 2 sets of rears for every 1 set of fronts. That means I'm saving ~$600 every other time. With a square set up I'd be replacing all 4 every time. See I'm saving myself money

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