SCCA CAM-C Thread

[kz]

*Jurassic Park clever girl*

I didn't think one would even come close to fitting in the spare well. Do you take the trunk liner out?

Yes - it fits diameter wise (285/35 - barely and kind of tight, 305/30 easily since it's smaller), it obiously doesn't fit width wise but it is the space to utilize. Trunk liner comes out.

Also, pro-tip - there's tons of space inside the wheels to carry small stuff. Had to do it going to Lincoln last year when my plan to have the the tires hauled over by someone else failed and they got dumped on my driveway day before I was leaving. And I had passenger in the car for this short 12 hour drive

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[TeeLew]

See, that's why I ask stuff like this here.

Thanks for the ideas!

 

[strengthrehab]

OR....have a rollbar and nothing fits, lol.

 

[NightmareMoon]

I do the three 305s in the backseat, rear seats up. two upright behind the passenger seat and the 3rd 305 perpendicular behind the driver. Gives me a normal seating position in the drivers seat and only one in the trunk and an empty passenger seat although that seat is forward a bit... so plenty of space. If I had to carry a passenger AND 305s, I’m not sure how I’d pack. Roof rack anyone?

 

[boardkat]

fwiw, i had no problems putting 3x335/13 in the rear (with the seat delete), and one in the trunk (along with a WHOLE bunch of spares, etc) before i picked up a trailer. did have to remove the passenger seat once i moved to fixed-back sparco though, but was able to fold and move the factory recaro forward to fit previously.

 

[TeeLew]

Well, I hit my first Auto-X, so I figured I'd give some sort of outing report.

tl;dr: First autocross in a long time. Was slow as shit, but had fun.

Let me preface this with my disclaimer. This is my first Auto-X in about 25 years and my first competitive driving in 16 years (not surprising, since my oldest daughter is 16) and that was in shifter karts. I've got plenty of experience at the track, but I pretty much suck as a driver.

Saturday was a Test/Tune day. I did 12 runs and my only changes were tire pressure. I started on the high end and dropped as the day went. The first two runs were pretty much throw-aways because the tires were brand new and I just needed to get the mold release off. I started at 32F/32R(psi) pressures. By the end of the day I was at 30F and 27.5R. That's where I ran on Sunday.

I was loose all day Sat. I think the course was very dirty early and only started to clean up by the end of the day. It was a little better on Sun, but I think it's part of the deal for this location.

In general, the car was reasonable, even if the driver was not. I started out over-driving by about 200%. By the end of day two, I was probably only over-driving about 50%. Either way, I was causing the majority of my own problems. When I'd try to roll more entry speed, I'd lose the front. When I tried to carry the brake in deeper, I'd end up chasing the tail. I got it right only sporadically, but it was all dependent on where I put the weight. The others I talked to were having trouble with rear grip, too.

In terms of my mods, I think everything is a positive except for possibly my rear spring, which I chose to _not_ change. I don't feel like my stock rear spring is too soft. I like the rear to squat on throttle, which most people do not and I like how the stock spring rate gets over rough pavement. When I first got the car, I could feel how the front was too soft, pretty much straight-away, but I felt the rear wasn't too bad. My front spring is a 220#/in rate with a 35mm drop (originally, I thought this was a 25mm drop). So by changing the front and leaving the rear, I've added a ton of rake to the car. This was something I could really feel, specifically in quick side-to-side transitions, like a slalom. It was less of a problem in longer duration steady-state corners, but I have no point of comparison, so that's just a qualitative statement. Having said this, I'd like one of you guys who has tried stiffer and lower in the rear to give the stocker rear springs a shot just to get another read on the spring rate vs. ride height balance difference. I'm going to do it the other way, from soft & high to lower & stiffer. My rear spring are 800#/in and 25mm lower. I can see a good argument for using the Mike Maier ride height adjuster and separating rate & ride height. Both are useful tools in their own right.

Because I was loose all Saturday, I decided to stick the rear a bit better on Sunday. To that end, I disconnected a drop-link on the RARB. This did plant the rear a lot better, but it made transitions more of an issue. Any time I had to ask for a quick direction change, the rear was sluggish and felt top-heavy. It was, of course, particularly sloppy in the slalom section. I also had to be better in terms of loading the front and brake release. If I came off the brake early, it'd wash the front right away. I also had to be very patient with the throttle in long duration corners, because of the U/S. In shorter 90 deg. corners, it allowed me to trail the car in without the rear sliding and it would hook up well on exit. My first run was intentionally slow to get a lap and learn the course. Fast time with the rear bar disconnected was a 59.74. I did 2 runs this way.

The final two runs I did with the RARB hooked up. The course started with a slalom, so, right away, the rear was more responsive, but it was also less gripped up. My first run with the RARB on I slid the rear around a bit too much and ran a 60.05. On my final run, I chilled out just a little bit and drove my best lap of a 59.72. It was a cleaner lap, but I would rate it as mediocre. I started out atrocious, so it was an improvement, lol.

The competition was a lot better than I was, no doubt. The top 3 were Camaros. First and Second were the same car run by a husband/wife and I guess they're some sort of national champion caliber duo. The husband had me by a mere 5 seconds. Were we even on the same track? The wife was a second slower. P3 was 1.2 off that. So now we get to P4, the first Mustang, who was another 7 tenths back (3 sec off the winner!). This was a GT350 that was a really nice car. I don't know what he had done, but it was nice looking. He ran a 57.74. So when I started looking at the time sheet, I started feeling a little less bad about everything. I'm legitimately 2 seconds off the fastest Mustang in my first event, but I'm also DFL of the runners who were competitive. 2 seconds is pretty much a lifetime, I know. I'd say improving my chassis tuning would be worth probably ~0.5 sec. and my driving is probably an easy 2-3 seconds off. We're in no danger of me knocking off that winning Camaro, but I think quickest Mustang is actually within reason, which is interesting because of engine differences.

At this point, I have zero regrets in terms of mods I've made. For the next event I'm going to have the stiffer/shorter rear springs on the car and I'm also going to start looking at fabbing a rear anti-roll bar. It needs *something* back there, but my stock bar is 24mm and that's too stiff. I want a bar which is able to be this stiff at maximum, but also easily adjustable. It's not that tough to make, I just have to get on it.

In terms of driving, the biggest thing I need is seat time. I was super tense and trying to muscle the car way too much. There were times where I'd think, "Jeez, Dude, chill out with the death grip on the steering wheel." When I finally brought my brake points back a bit, I was in much better shape, but I never really got them right. I've also got to get rid of my karting habit of slower initial steering input followed by a big, fast steering input prior to the apex. It's something you can do with a sticky tire go-kart that you can't do with anything else. I didn't even know I was doing it until I watched the video.

Overall, though, I had a blast and I'll give it another go in a month.

P.S. I would have won STU against two pretty soft runners. I'm better off in CAM getting clocked. It's not as good for the ego, but it's a hell of a lot tougher challenge.

 

[Brian@BMVK]

@TeeLew nice report! You would probably like the rear left alone and the front springs significantly stiffer. It would help your transitional handling response considerably and keep the rear planted so that you can attack fast transitions and slaloms. 35 mm front drop is way too much, especially with only 220# springs, and your front roll center is on the ground. Do you have a harness in the car yet? Schroth Quickfit Pro will likely remove your death grip...I probably dropped 1.5-2s instantly from not having to hold myself in position and being able to drive with light hands.

You could keep some/most of your driving style with the stiff front ;)

 

[kz]

The competition was a lot better than I was, no doubt. The top 3 were Camaros. First and Second were the same car run by a husband/wife and I guess they're some sort of national champion caliber duo. The husband had me by a mere 5 seconds. Were we even on the same track? The wife was a second slower. P3 was 1.2 off that. So now we get to P4, the first Mustang, who was

Jeff / Nicole Wong ? Yeah, they're quick. Very.

At this point, I have zero regrets in terms of mods I've made. For the next event I'm going to have the stiffer/shorter rear springs on the car and I'm also going to start looking at fabbing a rear anti-roll bar. It needs *something* back there, but my stock bar is 24mm and that's too stiff. I want a bar which is able to be this stiff at maximum, but also easily adjustable. It's not that tough to make, I just have to get on it.

That's what Strano bar - which I used to have and Dana has - was - slightly stiffer than stock PP bar at softest setting and adjustable.

Btw - respect for shifter karts. When I watch people drive these at autocross events, they look insane. And fun as hell.

 

[TeeLew]

Jeff / Nicole Wong ? Yeah, they're quick. Very.



That's what Strano bar - which I used to have and Dana has - was - slightly stiffer than stock PP bar at softest setting and adjustable.

Btw - respect for shifter karts. When I watch people drive these at autocross events, they look insane. And fun as hell.

Yep, Jeff & Nicole Wong. They've got a fast car and it's well driven.

I think in terms of rear bar, I'm looking for about 1/2 the rate (or less) of what I have. I don't think it exists in the aftermarket...and I like to build stuff. There are my marching orders.

The shifter karts were fun, but they're a younger man's game. I was never particularly good in those, either, lol. I could be competitive at the club or regional level (even a 'W' here or there), but was seriously out-gunned the couple years I ran the SuperNats. I think a car would be more fun at an autocross. Wheel-to-wheel in a group of about 20 guys is a lot of fun, though.

 

[TeeLew]

@TeeLew nice report! You would probably like the rear left alone and the front springs significantly stiffer. It would help your transitional handling response considerably and keep the rear planted so that you can attack fast transitions and slaloms. 35 mm front drop is way too much, especially with only 220# springs, and your front roll center is on the ground. Do you have a harness in the car yet? Schroth Quickfit Pro will likely remove your death grip...I probably dropped 1.5-2s instantly from not having to hold myself in position and being able to drive with light hands.

You could keep some/most of your driving style with the stiff front ;)

It's about 1/2 past time to machine spring seats which allow proper springs. I know this is too much of a drop, I ended up here kind of accidentally. Because of this combo, though, I can add a spring rubber which will bump the rate and ride height. That would be a good option on both accounts.

Those Schroth belts are on the list. I bought the little do-hickey that Dana posted a couple weeks ago, then forgot it both days, like a dummy.

 

[Brian@BMVK]

It's about 1/2 past time to machine spring seats which allow proper springs. I know this is too much of a drop, I ended up here kind of accidentally. Because of this combo, though, I can add a spring rubber which will bump the rate and ride height. That would be a good option on both accounts.

Those Schroth belts are on the list. I bought the little do-hickey that Dana posted a couple weeks ago, then forgot it both days, like a dummy.

Eeek. Unless you're always on the bump rubbers, that's just gonna unsettle the car a lot, unless you've found some really soft ones. Even the softer ones are in the 900-1000 lb/in range.

 

[kz]

Those Schroth belts are on the list. I bought the little do-hickey that Dana posted a couple weeks ago, then forgot it both days, like a dummy.

I am sure you know it but they won't fit rear belt receptacle on your car - you'll have to buy one from 15-17 car and either replace or add.

 

[Brian@BMVK]

Yep, Jeff & Nicole Wong. They've got a fast car and it's well driven.

I think in terms of rear bar, I'm looking for about 1/2 the rate (or less) of what I have. I don't think it exists in the aftermarket...and I like to build stuff. There are my marching orders.

The shifter karts were fun, but they're a younger man's game. I was never particularly good in those, either, lol. I could be competitive at the club or regional level (even a 'W' here or there), but was seriously out-gunned the couple years I ran the SuperNats. I think a car would be more fun at an autocross. Wheel-to-wheel in a group of about 20 guys is a lot of fun, though.

@boardkat ran a base EB/V6 bar before, which is in the ballpark of what you're looking for. He settled on stock GT PP bar though when it was still an autocross focused car, as have I. 22.2 mm vs the 24 mm you have now. It's still a very significant difference. I know that the base GT bar is 21.7 mm, also. The base EB/V6 is smaller still but I don't remember the size.

What adjustable front bar do you have?

 

[Dana Pants]

When are we gonna get @TeeLew videos?

the GoPro goes there:

 

[Brian@BMVK]

When are we gonna get @TeeLew videos?

the GoPro goes there:

Negative, it goes here . Gotta be able to see the hands and both sides.

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