Returnless Fuel System Options & Threads

[tdstuart]

Wanted to make a thread hoping to collect some info on returnless fuel systems.

Am hopefully buying part of a turbo kit today (needs new turbos), and while I will not be installing for some time and may never even get around to it... I have already decided I will be keeping the returnless fuel system.

With that in mind I know some good threads have been posted about returnless fuel systems and the new options we have instead of the typical way of throwing in a fore return style fuel system and dealing with those issues... I just need help finding the info.

Please link any good threads on returnless fuel system options or just post info. Thank you!

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[tdstuart]

Here are 2 posts I have found from @DougS550 on his returnless fuel system:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/kpm-1500hp-pwm-returnless-fuel-system-reveiw.206292/
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/returnless-fuel-kpm-1500hp-pwm-install.201829/

 

[LOL WUT]

From what I’ve seen, the KPM systems are the new show in town. https://kpmfuelsystems.com/product/kpm-1500hp-fuel-and-pwm-system-mustang-gt-2015-onwards/

Finally a plug and play system that can support 1500+ HP while maintaining a returnless system and OEM style bucket.

Radium/Arcane also offers returnless setups with their stage 1 and 2 offerings and I can vouch for their systems being very nice. https://juggernautpower.com/product...6vyOwwkqozaj7WW0rEz6fF5BhvMVLpBCS8bouzXOUUvTd

Now if we can get these offerings with a brushless pump we might finally have a modern age fuel system.

 

[5doorsoffury]

i know ita a returnless thread but it applies in some areas like the feed i threw the return in since im here. the radium hat the feed and the y block to rails can all be setup in a dead head config since yhe hat comes configured as a deadhead. so if you set it up this way you can convert to return with minimum fittings. i went deadhead but was seeing fuel pressure drops when i wacked the throttle so i went return. they werent a big deal but i didnt like it. that was on my vmp tune. i just mached the psi via logs with no tune changes. i went with wengerd after i converted to return.

I don't have any threads but i did a diy approach. Radium hat was a must since I wanted the oem bucket approach. i had to order a -8 low profile radium fitting and there blockoff kit. you then need a -6 to efi fitting for the return. i made that mistake and had to play the waiting game. With the vmp Odin my biggest hurdle that i needed info for that wasn’t around is what fittings fit in the ends of the rail with the blower in the way.



FORE has a low profile 180 for the passenger side that is absolute garbage. it’s a -8 an fitting that necks down to 1/8" in between so that went up to eBay. total garbage fitting. Supposedly I should of knows it’s a widely known fact that "low profile" means it necks down in size according to beefcake.



Fist off all no tool known to man fits in there to tighten the fittings FYI so after some trial and error, I used a 90-degree swivel -8 an hose to ORB for the passenger side and a 45 degree -8 an to ORB on the driver side. both of those hoses went to a summit -10 block that took it back to the hat via a -8 ptfe line.

For the return I used a -6 orb fitting in place of the efi fitting on the drivers side for the return. The second challenge was the clearance. I needed a 30 or 45 degree fitting but I was using what I had left over from my last car so I used a 90 degree to shoot it rear ward then a straight fitting on that to clear the Odens HE tank and that went to the regulator. then a -6 from the regulator to the oem line for return. I kept the kits crossover tube in the rear to equalize flow imbalances from the return at one rail and the di on the other side.



The regulator and y block all had to go between the airbox and strut tower so I bent up an AL strip and threw 2 nut serts in to mount it all together.

The Radium hat was awesome. it’s really nice to bad it doesn’t have a 3-pump setup. I used the 10an block so I can upgrade the feed to -10 for future proofing but at that point I would need a 3-pump hat.

For the electronics I’m an EE so it was the fun part for me. I bought a used FPDM with the harness off eBay for 50 bucks. I put one on each pump walbro 90000274. I ran a 4awg back to a block where I split 2 an awg wires to a relay pack with a flyback diode on the trigger wire. I used the output of the oem power line to trigger the relays. from the relays I fed the power in to each FPDM and each had a ground. the outputs went to 12 awg speaker wire then they went to the hat. I used the second FPDM by only using the trigger wire FPC and I omitted the FPM wire that is sued for diagnostics since the signals would get garbled. the area where they tell you to install bap had enuf room for a nutsert to mount the second FPDM and done. Tessa tape the whole shebang and there’s my custom return.



The rail fittings were the nightmare. I wish I did this at the same time as everything else so I wouldn’t have spent a day tightening 2 fittings but 20/20 and all.

 

[tdstuart]

From what I’ve seen, the KPM systems are the new show in town. https://kpmfuelsystems.com/product/kpm-1500hp-fuel-and-pwm-system-mustang-gt-2015-onwards/

Finally a plug and play system that can support 1500+ HP while maintaining a returnless system and OEM style bucket.

Radium/Arcane also offers returnless setups with their stage 1 and 2 offerings and I can vouch for their systems being very nice. https://juggernautpower.com/product...6vyOwwkqozaj7WW0rEz6fF5BhvMVLpBCS8bouzXOUUvTd

Now if we can get these offerings with a brushless pump we might finally have a modern age fuel system.

Good info. The arcane system looks interesting to me as it looks like they will assemble the kit and probably can help me pick a system for my goals. I’ll probably reach out and see what I need

 

[WildHorse]

Considering you have a 15-17 ... the superior species, DW400 (or DW440 brushless) , stock bucket, 20V BAP (or CONTROLLER for the 440). Perfect for Gasoline and E85. Done & Done. You won't run out of fuel w/ good injectors.

The Bugatti Veyron @ 1183 hp uses a returnless w/ a pump similar to the DW400.
Almost all BIG HORSEPOWER factory cars use a returnless fuel system.

 

[tdstuart]

Considering you have a 15-17 ... the superior species, DW400 (or DW440 brushless) , stock bucket, 20V BAP (or CONTROLLER for the 440). Perfect for Gasoline and E85. Done & Done. You won't run out of fuel w/ good injectors.

The Bugatti Veyron @ 1183 hp uses a returnless w/ a pump similar to the DW400.
Almost all BIG HORSEPOWER factory cars use a returnless fuel system.

Do you know the practical limits to that setup on e85. That is my short term plan for fuel system as I already have a dw400 but I am looking at fuel systems to support 800+whp on e85.

 

[WildHorse]

800+whp on e85.

Well a single DW400 supports 770 @ 60 psi w/ E85. So you'll need a bigger pump.

 

[tdstuart]

Well a single DW400 supports 770 @ 60 psi w/ E85. So you'll need a bigger pump.

I’ve heard the lines are a big restriction that’s why I am trying to do research into upgraded fuel systems.

770 should give me enough of a margin to run about 650 until I do a fuel system if I want to take that route

 

[tdstuart]

@ 60psi with 10mm fuel lines, around 20°c fuel temps, you'll get around 144 gallons of fuel per hour. The DW400 flows 105.5 gallons per hour, the DW440 116.1 gallons per hour.

Do you know anything about upgrading the lines on this car incase that is something I wanted to do?

 

[WildHorse]

Do you know anything about upgrading the lines on this car incase that is something I wanted to do?

Should correct that the DW400 flows 110gals/hr
Upgrade lines you'll need a new hat etc., etc. Might as well buy a aftermarket fuel system at that point.

 

[tdstuart]

Should correct that the DW400 flows 110gals/hr
Upgrade lines you'll need a new hat etc., etc. Might as well buy a aftermarket fuel system at that point.

Good to know I wasn’t sure if you could just upgrade the fuel lines to get more flow or if there was more involved

 

[DougS550]

I ran a -8 PTFE steel braided line with All -8an fittings from the pump to the whipple rail. Easy, just takes time cutting the line and Installing the -8 fittings. A high quality PTFE line has a tight bend radius without kicking. Good luck

 

[engineermike]

A single dw400 at 20 volts will support 850-900 supercharged rwhp on e85, about 100 more turbocharged, but tuning is key.

We’re actually working on an experiment right now to see just how far a single dw400 can go.

 

[tdstuart]

A single dw400 at 20 volts will support 850-900 supercharged rwhp on e85, about 100 more turbocharged, but tuning is key.

We’re actually working on an experiment right now to see just how far a single dw400 can go.

Is this gen3 or gen2? And stock fuel lines only the pump, injectors, and boost a pump?

Another issue is tuning. Lund won’t touch e85 boost without return and I’m not confident enough with my tuning to do it unless I can get a Lund 91 boost tune and convert it to e85.

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