return-less fuel systems thoughts and ideas

[DougS550]

The Sai Li kit uses the gt500 basket with an 8 feed line. It runs constant 12.5 volts from the battery. Even with fuel rails it struggles at 850 rwhp on a gen 3, fuel pressure drop is significant. I've already seen 3 engines fail with that kit from leaning out all around 825 to 850 wheel.

I would like nothing better then go with a returnless, but their is to many conflicting

I've been rather impressed by a dw400 at 18 volts, unlike others out there I've used many dw400s with no issues whatsoever. From my experience it definitely performs very close to the 2 Ford pumps in the gt500 basket at around 12.5 to 13 volts. I'm sure in bench testing it may provide different numbers but in actual application that is what I've found.

Also keep in mind in your car you have a larger DI pump and are utilizing more DI split then most, that plus your optimized injection timing are allowing you greater efficiency in the fueling to allow better results.

I've achieved around 800 wheel with a dw400 with bap and aftermarket fuel rails with the stock DI system, on cool nights though the pressure drop was more then my liking. I've since switched to the radium set up with 274s and it gave me back a little more fuel pressure to feel comfortable with. The dw400 with a bap and rails though is definitely underestimated by many. On a gen 3 fuel rails are key.

My tuner will not tune my one DW400, BAP on E85. Do you know what the capability is for the Radium

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[Midwestracer]

I've been rather impressed by a dw400 at 18 volts, unlike others out there I've used many dw400s with no issues whatsoever. From my experience it definitely performs very close to the 2 Ford pumps in the gt500 basket at around 12.5 to 13 volts. I'm sure in bench testing it may provide different numbers but in actual application that is what I've found.

Also keep in mind in your car you have a larger DI pump and are utilizing more DI split then most, that plus your optimized injection timing are allowing you greater efficiency in the fueling to allow better results.

I've achieved around 800 wheel with a dw400 with bap and aftermarket fuel rails with the stock DI system, on cool nights though the pressure drop was more then my liking. I've since switched to the radium set up with 274s and it gave me back a little more fuel pressure to feel comfortable with. The dw400 with a bap and rails though is definitely underestimated by many. On a gen 3 fuel rails are key.

I'm seeing some pressure drop also with the gt500 pump setup with jms bap at 18v on good da days

I would like nothing better then go with a returnless, but their is to many conflicting

My tuner will not tune my one DW400, BAP on E85. Do you know what the capability is for the Radium

Who's your tuner sounds like he doesn't want to so probly find another tuner or see what he recommends or if he is OK with thr radium setup

 

[cbrtrx]

I would like nothing better then go with a returnless, but their is to many conflicting

My tuner will not tune my one DW400, BAP on E85. Do you know what the capability is for the Radium

From my own experience the radium is safe to about 875/900 rwhp on E85 with 2 274 pumps, others have made more but for my personal threshold for safety that's what I feel comfortable with, anyone planning over 850 I tell them to just go triple pump for safety. I'll also add that I dislike full return fuel systems, one being is that the fuel averages about 35 degrees hotter then a returnless which isn't good for multiple reasons, also I dislike having no fuel bucket.

Environment, application and fueling requirements can all change things a good bit as well.

 

[Midwestracer]

From my own experience the radium is safe to about 875/900 rwhp on E85 with 2 274 pumps, others have made more but for my personal threshold for safety that's what I feel comfortable with, anyone planning over 850 I tell them to just go triple pump for safety. I'll also add that I dislike full return fuel systems, one being is that the fuel averages about 35 degrees hotter then a returnless which isn't good for multiple reasons, also I dislike having no fuel bucket.

Environment, application and fueling requirements can all change things a good bit as well.

What about running the 285s in it

 

[Midwestracer]

I'm also thinking about running one dw400 in my gt500 setup and one stock or both dw400s just worried about sucking the bucket dry also I had the gt350 setup and went to the 3rd gen gt500 setup and the pimps are definitely not the same

 

[cbrtrx]

What about running the 285s in it

I personally would not run 2 285s the pumps are ran close to each other in a steel basket. It starts to build up a good bit of heat and it holds it in. Also you could have issues with moving fuel too fast through the regulator which then causes even more heat. The radium setup in my opinion is not really designed to use anything more then 2 274s. If you call them the will even say to run one constant and one on a hobbs. I won't run a hobbs in anything I depend on though.

 

[DougS550]

From my own experience the radium is safe to about 875/900 rwhp on E85 with 2 274 pumps, others have made more but for my personal threshold for safety that's what I feel comfortable with, anyone planning over 850 I tell them to just go triple pump for safety. I'll also add that I dislike full return fuel systems, one being is that the fuel averages about 35 degrees hotter then a returnless which isn't good for multiple reasons, also I dislike having no fuel bucket.

Environment, application and fueling requirements can all change things a good bit as well.

Thanks. The Radium is a Bucket Hat assembly right? And they say the fuel is cycled by the regulator?
Also; what are people using to regulate the second fuel pump according to demand so it doesn't run continuously?
Thanks

 

[cbrtrx]

Thanks. The Radium is a Bucket Hat assembly right? And they say the fuel is cycled by the regulator?
Also; what are people using to regulate the second fuel pump according to demand so it doesn't run continuously?
Thanks

The regulator is built into the fuel pump hat. The pumps get full power from the battery, pumps are ran at full power at all times.

 

[J17GT]

The regulator is built into the fuel pump hat. The pumps get full power from the battery, pumps are ran at full power at all times.

You can also go traditional external regulator with the Radium hat & bucket setup. It's the route I went with my whipple car - Arcane Stage 3 setup. Running the rails in parallel with the regulator after the rails. The kit comes with a DW2000R regulator.

Also, considering the pumps are still controlled by the FPDM, are they truly getting "full power" all the time? Apologies if this is obvious for some, I'm still learning here.

 

[HKusp]

The Radium set-up I have is a plastic bucket with one way valves to keep the pumps bathed, and the regulator is on the hat so it acts as a regulated fuel system, but the fuel doesn't get sent to the front of the car, get heated by the engine heat then get dumped back into the fuel tank. If it's not being called for by the demand, it stays in the tank, keeping things cooler.

 

[cbrtrx]

You can also go traditional external regulator with the Radium hat & bucket setup. It's the route I went with my whipple car - Arcane Stage 3 setup. Running the rails in parallel with the regulator after the rails. The kit comes with a DW2000R regulator.

Also, considering the pumps are still controlled by the FPDM, are they truly getting "full power" all the time? Apologies if this is obvious for some, I'm still learning here.

With the radium setup the pumps are not controlled by the FPDM, they are only triggered on.

 

[cbrtrx]

The Radium set-up I have is a plastic bucket with one way valves to keep the pumps bathed, and the regulator is on the hat so it acts as a regulated fuel system, but the fuel doesn't get sent to the front of the car, get heated by the engine heat then get dumped back into the fuel tank. If it's not being called for by the demand, it stays in the tank, keeping things cooler.

The bucket has been steel since the beginning, is your kit very new? My friend recently bought one that was steel as well. I have not seen a radium plastic bucket yet.

 

[Midwestracer]

You can also go traditional external regulator with the Radium hat & bucket setup. It's the route I went with my whipple car - Arcane Stage 3 setup. Running the rails in parallel with the regulator after the rails. The kit comes with a DW2000R regulator.

Also, considering the pumps are still controlled by the FPDM, are they truly getting "full power" all the time? Apologies if this is obvious for some, I'm still learning here.

With the radium setup the pumps are not controlled by the FPDM, they are only triggered on.

i guess that makes sense cause it a regulator style return setup

 

[DougS550]

The regulator is built into the fuel pump hat. The pumps get full power from the battery, pumps are ran at full power at all times.

I really don't want my second pump in any application to run full power % all of the time. I know someone has to have made a system which ramps up the second pump on demand but I wouldn't know what they are using and to where the input signal to do this they are using. Any thoughts?

 

[J17GT]

With the radium setup the pumps are not controlled by the FPDM, they are only triggered on.

The bucket has been steel since the beginning, is your kit very new? My friend recently bought one that was steel as well. I have not seen a radium plastic bucket yet.

That does make sense. I suppose wiring into the factory connector is for priming with key on and the fuel level. I ordered my kit last November and my bucket is steel.

For my use case, I have zero concerns running the pumps full time. I'm confident this setup will support plenty of power.

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