Replaced Voodoo Engine

[rick81721]

The catalytic converters take care of the smoke. These oil consuming engines give no indication of what is going on except the missing oil on the dipstick each time you check it. How often did you check the oil on your dipstick?

I want to discuss this with the dealer I'm working with on my oil-consuming motor. Will they replace the cats along with the motor? I'd think they are getting fouled.

 

[AdamIsAdam]

I check mine before every drive. But it's just a weekend toy, so I'm already under the hood unplugging the battery tender. And this car replaced my `64 GTO which I also checked the oil as part of "pre-flight" inspection.

One thought I have is that Ford should add an oil level monitor. I have it on my `99 911, so it's certainly not new technology!

 

[johnny1]

Or at least a low oil warning or light. I may be wrong but think I've read some where that the 5.0 GT has one. Geesh!

 

[swamp_gas]

....I had recently had an oil change, hadnt had to add a single qt!

Just wondering if you had double checked the oil levels after the oil change? Did you change it or did you take it to the dealer/3rd party for the oil change? I could see the dealer dumping in 5 quarts, pushing the 'full send' button, and moving on to the next 'mustang', not remembering that this is a different beast with a 10 quart oil capacity. It would be interesting to see if you could track that info down in a log or receipt somewhere to rule that out. Sorry to hear about your issues and welcome to the forums!

 

[Carsnkicks]

All fair enough questions about other owners having this issue on here. This is my case. I am not in the habit of making dramatic internet stories, or fabrication. Of course, this is the internet, I could be some backwards jackass that blows motors like it’s my job.


The CEL came on while driving (normal highway speeds, not asshattery not that it should matter). Took it home pulled the code. P0022, which is the over retarded cam (bank 2 iirc). Common problems seemed to be a stuck VTC. Listen, I am the lowest level of shade tree mechanic, I have tinkered with cars like most on here, but do not profess to be a tech of any type. There was no indication of the oil being the culprit. In hindsight, and in my younger more carefree days, I would have joined these forums sooner and read about these issues, and perhaps been made more aware? I am kicking myself for NOT checking oil level that night. It was a long day. I had a warranty. It was a minor issue, maybe even ECM related.


Any rate, its Sunday night, I made an appt through the app for 0845 next mornings. Start the car to drive it to the dealer (hindsight always 20/20, but no flashing CEL, no smoke, no DO NOT DRIVE ME, from what I am seeing from the code it’s a timing issue). CEL gone. Hmmm. It did make a quick rattle (which I read could be the cam phasers) at first start but it was maybe a second long. It then it drove fine, at least at normal speed. As for loss of power, IDK...because it had a solid CEL earlier, I drove it like a baby (just to be safe anyway). I had normal temps and oil pressure. Again, should have pulled the dipstick but I did not. Wouldn’t have mattered anyway, still would have gone in to the shop, albeit with more of an idea what was wrong.


The first call I get was that it was 5 quarts low oil. I said no, cannot be. I check the oil in that car fairly regularly. In fact, I probably check it more than most. Usually check it when I wash it (once a week minimum, sometimes 2 or 3, ask my wife and kids lol). I had checked this oil about 2 weeks prior. I know because it had been hit and was in the shop for 2 weeks (another story, VA drivers suck). I had not yet washed the car since that time, and hadn’t even had to put gas in it yet. However, before it went IN the repair shop I had checked it. No low oil Believe me or not, that’s the truth.


Yes, the dealership did do my oil change, but I also had checked it several times since that change. Level and ECU wise (yeah, I get it, the ecu just reads calculates percentage via time/distance/rpm but I still check it cause its available to me) I had not even had to add a quart. Also, the dealership knows me there, because when I do take it in (I like having the paper trail and also its free changes and its 10 qts of full syn) I write them about 100 notes to use FULL SYN 10 QUARTS. THIS IS A SHELBY. Yada yada. Seriously, I am pretty anal about ensuring the car is properly maintained. I don’t have Shelby money growing on tress, I buy nice things but I take care of them accordingly. That’s just how I am.


I have owned other cars with "gremlins", and I can admit I am guilty of the same thoughts some have expressed on here. Perfect case in point was an 02 WRX. Blown trannies everywhere right? After my warranty ended I had mine up to over 400whp, stock trans, no issues. No second gear blown. Nothing. I blamed the ham fisted jackasses for those trans. That simply wasn’t true. I was lucky. There was a defect in hose gearboxes. And sure, some people drove them like asshats, but others did not, and still suffered failure.


I am all about calling an idiot an idiot. I also am NOT completely crying. I’m not joining any F Ford forums, or going to buy only corollas from now on. I am not even saying this is an epidemic. At. All. I may have just gotten unlucky, like others. I am of the theory that when it comes to issues with cars, they tend to get "posted", whereas those with no issues simply drive their cars and don’t mention it. So sure, I can believe that it’s a small number of affected engines.


Thus far, Ford seems to be doing the right thing. So I will be happy to have the car back, and even happier if they HAVE discovered a flaw and "fixed" it. IDK. I will be a bit more paranoid about oil levels I suppose, but it won’t own my life either. I think I could beat myself up more than anyone about what I could have done to prevent this LOL. But let’s be honest I know I did not do anything to make this car blow through that much oil in that short a time. NOT. A. THING.


Also, keep in mind the SERVICE department said it was "5 quarts low". It may not have been. I did not seem them pull the oil. I even told expressed some doubt to the manager (HOW? There is no way? "Well that is what my tech is reporting). I had the oil changed about a month or so back (closer to 2, have to double check). Even in a three months, 5 quarts? Under 500 miles driven? Nah. That is either me siphoning my engine oil to sell on the black market, the oil fairy visiting me every night to siphon a few Oz’s at a time. That or perhaps there is an issue in SOME (not all) of these motors that is causing the issue.


But yeah, yay, new motor! (not really, but at least it isn’t being denied)

 

[Carsnkicks]

Just wondering if you had double checked the oil levels after the oil change? Did you change it or did you take it to the dealer/3rd party for the oil change? I could see the dealer dumping in 5 quarts, pushing the 'full send' button, and moving on to the next 'mustang', not remembering that this is a different beast with a 10 quart oil capacity. It would be interesting to see if you could track that info down in a log or receipt somewhere to rule that out. Sorry to hear about your issues and welcome to the forums!

Thanks for the welcome. Sucks I only joined to report death! I just dont have as much time for forums these days. I did check it a few times since it had been changed, so I dont think the dealer underfilled. Not sure if I could really track that other than my own observations, but again, per my visual observation they did not underfill. Also, no leaks found, no oil in my driveway. If it hadnt happened to me Id be more skeptical myself lol.

 

[Hack]

Thanks for the details. It's interesting that the engine can be 5 quarts low on oil without any deviation from normal oil pressure. What that means to me is that normal driving with the oil that low shouldn't damage anything. It makes sense that under low RPM, street conditions there is a lot less oil being pumped up to the top of the engine, but it's still surprising to me that there were no symptoms from the low oil.

 

[Carsnkicks]

Thanks for the details. It's interesting that the engine can be 5 quarts low on oil without any deviation from normal oil pressure. What that means to me is that normal driving with the oil that low shouldn't damage anything. It makes sense that under low RPM, street conditions there is a lot less oil being pumped up to the top of the engine, but it's still surprising to me that there were no symptoms from the low oil.

NONE! And that said, I kinda doubt it was 5 quarts low, although if they really lost 2 quarts in a day and a half of their own diagnostics, then I guess its possible over a 2 week period. That or they have their measurements off lol

 

[galaxy]

It's interesting that the engine can be 5 quarts low on oil without any deviation from normal oil pressure. What that means to me is that normal driving with the oil that low shouldn't damage anything. It makes sense that under low RPM, street conditions there is a lot less oil being pumped up to the top of the engine, but it's still surprising to me that there were no symptoms from the low oil.

Not surprising at all. You are correct about normal driving shouldn't hurt anything. But, As long as the oil pump pickup is submerged in oil throughout the operating conditions, the pressure shouldn't/wouldn't fluctuate. The oil pickup does not know how high the level above it is, it only cares that it's constantly fed. Once it stops being bed (no longer completely submerged), now you'd see pressure problems and such. What I don't know, and doubt anyone outside of engineering does, is at what quantity does that occur?!?! Obviously not at five quarts, LOL.

 

[Tomster]

Your explanation was not necessary, but it is appreciated. It is clear you were diligent and not careless. It's a shame this is happening to so many good folks.

I had a long chat with my service guy about the oil consumption issues with these motors. I asked.... to keep a numbers matching car, could I pay out of pocket if it was as something as simple as valves? I was told yes, and warranty would be preserved, but parts would be the problem. Unless I knew someone at Ford Performance, it would be almost impossible to obtain parts, specifically the heads. Is a numbers matching car worth the 2-3 grand for a rebuild of the heads and valve assembly?

 

[johnny1]

Just my own personal thoughts only but unless you are going to keep the car for many many years and sell it as a numbers matching car I wouldn't consider it. Theres just to many engines being replaced for this to be done. Plus in this day and age especially with our cars if you get very many miles on car it might actually sell a bit higher if engine has been replaced. Because the buyer possibly would feel more secure then the thought of if and when. Not to say a replaced engine won't blow, some have had that happen. And finally so if they determine its the head/valve assembly and you manage to get it done dollar out of your pocket whose to say the engine still won't blow for some other reason before powertrain warranty expires and then your up a creek without a paddle. Since you've went into the engine Ford won't give you a new one on there dime. Or warranty any thing to do with it.

 

[nastang87xx]

Is a numbers matching car worth the 2-3 grand for a rebuild of the heads and valve assembly?

Right on, and even so, who would even care?

 

[rick81721]

Speaking of oul pressure, mine seems to be trending higher with each oil change. Initially (first 4000 miles or so) I saw readings around 85 psi when cold, now 100 and sometimes a little higher. And by cold, I'm talking SW Florida, temps in the 70s/80s when starting.

 

[btown93]

I'm not sure there is a VIN stamped on the heads. That being said, they are availible through normal parts channels like any other Ford part.

 

[Carsnkicks]

Not surprising at all. You are correct about normal driving shouldn't hurt anything. But, As long as the oil pump pickup is submerged in oil throughout the operating conditions, the pressure shouldn't/wouldn't fluctuate. The oil pickup does not know how high the level above it is, it only cares that it's constantly fed. Once it stops being bed (no longer completely submerged), now you'd see pressure problems and such. What I don't know, and doubt anyone outside of engineering does, is at what quantity does that occur?!?! Obviously not at five quarts, LOL.

Yep, that makes sense. Silly that there is no low level indicator on these cars though. Still not sure I buy it was 5 quarts low but hey, thats what they are saying.