Question about NOT replacing oil pump gears

[Travis@boostworks]

Wow, I wonder how much power they had? I am sure they were killing it during testing, but still enough to get me thinking.

This was at 675whp.. Nothing crazy. It broke 1 week after being modded. Never revved over 7400rpm. We've built and sold kits for about 50 cars in the last year. This is the first time we've seen one break.

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[GT2]

Boostworks just lost their stock OPG and the motor with it.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1191662&postcount=111

Very hard to compare the load conditions of a 1/2 mile race car to street cars. Traction, duration of pulls in higher gears.... All of that jazz. So I think street cars don't really need it.

If you're not willing to put an oil gear in your car, you should at least consider getting an ATi Dampener or the such.

 

[Kellys69z]

These motors are a lot higher compression and we are seeing much higher cylinder pressure which creates more heat. I think the 5w20 is just insufficient for alleviating heat built up as well as maintaining proper lubrication capabilities while under the high stress. I have had great success so far with 10w30 pennzoil ultra platinum with a motorcraft filter. This is just me thinking out loud and I am not a very educated individual on these matters. There seems to be a correlation to the issue. We aren't seeing rods throw or rings break...both members are having the bearing noise which to me screams insufficient lubrication or not enough viscosity

I'll add that I think the bearings are too soft, and I think they need the h bearings.

 

[zaquhree]

I'll add that I think the bearings are too soft, and I think they need the h bearings.

The rod bearings? Too soft for the cylinder pressure you think?

 

[Kellys69z]

The rod bearings? Too soft for the cylinder pressure you think?

The bearings being soft. Anytime I build an engine for rpm or high hp I use h bearings. If it's a mild street engine I usually use p bearings.

 

[z06psi]

I'm looking into the same thing, and also considering the MMR piece made by Romac. Seems the removal and instal is fairly easy. Just not positive about how to or if the timing has to be set once installed.

1. A 3 prong puller to pull the OE damper off. May need to remove fan shroud?
2. Cold crank hot damper with anti seize instal with 12mm x 1.5 pitch 6" threaded rod with nut and large washer to drive the damper on and fulley seat.
3. ARP crank damper bolt torqued to 90 ft lb's I think.
4. Not sure about setting timing?
5. Their is a trick to get the short A/C belt on with a zip tie, but not clear on how it's done yet.

1. Do not need to remove anything up front in the radiator support.
2. Get it at McMaster Carr
3. Yep
4. There is a procedure here on the board. Use only this one specifically http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?p=953063#post953063
5. The trick is to place the belt on the A/C compressor and get it as far as you can by hand around the crank damper. Turn the crank bolt as you feed it on. It will guide itself.

 

[Gibbo205]

I see your point about insufficient lubrication but on the other side of that token we have VCT phasers that have spring tension and oil passages that were carefully tuned and calculated by the ford engineers to operate with 5w-20. obviously not in all, but in some cases the heavier or lighter weight oil causes VCT problems and sets codes. I'm sure the heavier weight oil moving through the oil pump, especially before the engine has had time to reach operating temp could cause a failure too? We're kind stuck in the middle of two problems here...

The oil thickness when cold is the first number, so a 5W-20, 5W-30, 5W-40 etc. are all the same thickness at cold startup.

The last number is the thickness as the oil warms, typically high revving engines will use a thicker oil, for instance last generation M cars with high revving S6 and V8 were using 10W-60 Castrol oil, even then at 100,000 miles it was good practice to change the rod bearings and bolts as the high RPM nature of the engine causes them to wear.

 

[Excelerater]

Looks like these are the rejects they are selling at a discount. Tempting, but hope these are reliable.

i buy them all the time for BigBlock chevys and so far I have only gotten one that had the timing marks smeared but the functionality and fit were perfect

Im going to keep a look out for a 5.0 one now too for my GT, a bit overkill but they are IMO the best balencers you can buy

 

[desant89]

i buy them all the time for BigBlock chevys and so far I have only gotten one that had the timing marks smeared but the functionality and fit were perfect

Im going to keep a look out for a 5.0 one now too for my GT, a bit overkill but they are IMO the best balencers you can buy

I bought one of these off of Ebay. For me, having ATI sell them means a lot too. Not like they are coming from somewhere else second hand. They only had 6 of them. There are none left now.

 

[Tugger50H]

Ford contact gave permission to post the info. New thread coming soon.

Higher pressures mean higher peak instantanious acceleration. Each power stroke is a brief crank acceleration so 8 impulses on crank every 2 revoltions (4 stroke cycle).

Ford will likely never say "only xyz" is needed for reliable FI on stock block.

Keep in mind that the heavier rotating mass of Whipple vs Centri and the different belt set ups may mean vastly different peak crank torsional vibration even though both are FI. Turbo setups likely also different.

Bottom line, an ATI damper install is way easier than opg and tg. Cost vs durability benefit is looking very high. Obviously, all three: damper, opg, tg is higher install and parts cost and additional durability.

I suspect the statistics will show few or zero opg failures running ATI damper with Whipple 6 or 10 rib (10 comes w ATI damper? hmmm). I am guessing light weight centri w short belt on stock or race damper will be highest opg or tg failures. Guessing TT closer to centri.

It would be great to see more data to support the claim there is a greater occurrence of opg & tg failure with centri and TT setups. Maybe i'm off base here but seems like if centri and TT setups had an equal but higher rate of failure it would have more to do with how the power ramps up than belt configuration. Seems logical there would be sudden change in the harmonics as the boost come on. :shrug:

Any thoughts if centris with 6 rib belt upgrades would fair better? Would procharger vs paxton/vortech be any different?

 

[Killswitch16GT]

:(

 

[zaquhree]

PD blowers are known to have more stress on the crank than any other power adder. Twins have nothing to do with the crank because they're exhaust driven. Power comes on like a PD blower with twins too or a single.

 

[Furore]

I had my installer do the MMR OPG, sprocket, and balancer when I went under the knife for the Whipple. Yes it is RARE for them to break, but again.. if you are going to spend that kind of money for a supercharger, it is worth the extra $1k for piece of mind.

 

[Highvoltage16]

The oil thickness when cold is the first number, so a 5W-20, 5W-30, 5W-40 etc. are all the same thickness at cold startup.

The last number is the thickness as the oil warms, typically high revving engines will use a thicker oil, for instance last generation M cars with high revving S6 and V8 were using 10W-60 Castrol oil, even then at 100,000 miles it was good practice to change the rod bearings and bolts as the high RPM nature of the engine causes them to wear.
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I am well aware how to read oil viscosity. This is right and wrong. The 5w is winter weight, 30 is running temp weight. However the viscosity a are tested different. All this means is that 30 weight oil flows like a 5 weight oil at -25 Fahrenheit. This doesn't mean it flows like 5 weight at 210 fahrenheit. 5 winter weight oil is still much thicker that SAE 5 weight oil. So no, oil doesn't thin out as it cools or thicken as it heats. It is actually like most anything else and is thicker and doesn't want to move as fast when it's cold.

 

[desant89]

I understand the feeling of security here. On the other side, I hate to add about 1500 more on top of an already expensive upgrade to my car. Especially if we are not clearly seeing the need. I seen a couple of engine problems in here recently that had the upgraded OPG. However, If I can do it myself, for a 500 parts cost, I would do it. Then you got ATI saying that there are ZERO examples of an OPG failure when their crank damper is used. Given that I was unable to find any examples going against their theory, I bought that instead. Again, I will be paying labor for all that is done to my car.

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