Please Educate Me - Why No Spoiler On Performance Pack?

[TexasRebel]

[ame]

found this in another thread.

Sponsored

 

[Norm Peterson]

Okie dokie. There ya go. Now explain how it's an entirely different story??????? LOL in that video the car is bolted to the ceiling.

The only reason for bolting it up there is because it wasn't a full-scale car that was gradually driven up the inside of a cylindrical tunnel (at 100 mph or more) to get there. You're seeing the end result, not what went on to get it there.


Norm

 

[Sekhon]

At highway speeds they are for looks only. Even above an real benefit requires hours of testing in a wind tunnel, otherwise they cause drag.

Wings are a different thing entirely.



Okie dokie. There ya go. Now explain how it's an entirely different story??????? LOL in that video the car is bolted to the ceiling.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1752888-can-a-formula-1-car-drive-upside-down

Here read this article. In theory, F1 cars can be easily driven on the ceiling due to shear amount of downforce they create but they can't be glued to the ceiling the entire time due to oil starvation (in the engine bay).

ps. Spoilers are used to create a downforce to plant the car to the ground. Drag racing cars and F1 cars use this. Drag racing cars, so that they dont fly in the air and F1, so that they can take a high speed turn. Also, creating too much downforce on the rear of the car can cause a lift, raising the front of the car. Hence, not every sports car needs a "wing"

 

[tom_sprecher]

Good call. Since you cant back up the original statement. About how wings are entirely different. Take the I'm to intelligent to continue the debate approach.;) But honestly I glad your bowing out. I was getting bored with this debate. Have a good day.

It's not that I'm too intelligent to continue the debate, it's just you want me to defend an ill conceived argument you started.

Cliff notes: Spoilers reduce lift. Wings create down force. That is the difference I was referring to.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Drag racing cars, so that they dont fly in the air

The top drag racing classes need downforce for more reasons than "not flying". Being able to maintain traction when the slipper clutch has finally locked up solid and full engine power is available at the tires comes to mind.

6000+ ft*lbs torque times a 3.20-ish axle is way more than can be resisted by ~2500 lbs of car + driver weight alone.


Norm

 

[Sasuketr]

Not quite sure I understand this. The PP replaces the "Track" package yet removes the spoiler. Wouldn't the spoiler be beneficial in a track application?

As people mentioned already the purpose of the spoiler is to provide down force by increasing the friction force between the tires and the contact surface. So you will have the weight of the car plus the wind downforce by the spoiler multiplied by the friction factor of tire compound and surface. This way the car wont slip and slide especially during the turns against the centrifugal force and the path of inertia.

Now depending on the spoiler design it can actually limit your top speed application. The design of the fins and the angles are pretty important. Your drag force may increase but lets not get into the aerodynamics.

To answer your question, by removing the spoiler from a track car ( gt pp), but putting it on a gt350 track pack, and even bigger one on the gt350R, Ford made a pretty ballsy statement. And the statement is as follows "Our gtpp is so feeaking fast and so track ready that you dont need a spoiler or stiffer suspension or wider grip tires but you will still eat Boss302's, Porsche's and 1le camaros for breakfast". Ohh and one more statement from Ford " We dont give a shit about the gtpp".

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Sekhon]

The top drag racing classes need downforce for more reasons than "not flying". Being able to maintain traction when the slipper clutch has finally locked up solid and full engine power is available at the tires comes to mind.

6000+ ft*lbs torque times a 3.20-ish axle is way more than can be resisted by ~2500 lbs of car + driver weight alone.


Norm

Yes that is what i meant by "flying". Top fuel dragsters (and F1 cars) usually have two spoilers, one in the front and one in the back to keep the cars planted to the ground.

 

[bluebeastsrt]

It's not that I'm too intelligent to continue the debate, it's just you want me to defend an ill conceived argument you started.

Cliff notes: Spoilers reduce lift. Wings create down force. That is the difference I was referring to.

Incorrect! Spoilers and wings operate on the same aerodynamic principle! Reducing lift. Creates down force. You can't have one without the other. :doh: Real intelligent statement there with your cliff notes Einstein.

 

[chain]

Who says F1 is the highest end of motor sports?? Was there a pole taken recently? I most have missed that while I was waiting for you to post something other than photos.:shrug: In this country. F1 gets about a 10th of the viewership of Nascar.

I would say it is easily the highest end of Motorsports. Might not be here in the US but globally I think it's no contest. Of course the money involved with Formula 1 is just out of this world compared to anything else.

I looked up information and F1 does have the most viewers but I had to look in different places to get information. Didn't have any luck finding one place that laid everything out.

Personally I'm an Indycar fan. :clap2:

So much hostility in here....

 

[Chameleon]

opcorn:

 

[NightmareMoon]

I'm so glad the PP cars don't have a silly trunk spoiler. The lip built into the body lines of the trunk is so much more attractive to my eye.

If you see a factory model that adds a spoiler and doesn't also change the front aero, chances are that spoiler is aero-neutral and just for looks. PP cars don't need anything "for looks" IMHO. They should be performance only.

If the manufacturer wants to provide appearance package options separately (and some do), that's ok too. Just don't bundle useless add-ons with my performance goodies. Ford got that part right on the MY 15-17 cars.

 

[Sekhon]

I would say it is easily the highest end of Motorsports. Might not be here in the US but globally I think it's no contest. Of course the money involved with Formula 1 is just out of this world compared to anything else.

I looked up information and F1 does have the most viewers but I had to look in different places to get information. Didn't have any luck finding one place that laid everything out.

Personally I'm an Indycar fan. :clap2:

So much hostility in here....

Lately F1 took a huge dive in the viewership globally. F1 used to be a big time spectator sport in the early 90's and mid 2000's era prior to the introduction of those stupid DRS and re-fueling rules :frusty:

Another reason why F1 went down is because its pretty much one sided. There is alot of funding to Ferrari, Mercedes and Red-Bull while other teams are getting spare change. Hence everyone knows one of them will be the winner. Also, the big reason NOISE :doh:. I am all about F-1 using the most advanced technology but current cars sound like vacuum cleaners.

 

[chain]

Lately F1 took a huge dive in the viewership globally. F1 used to be a big time spectator sport in the early 90's and mid 2000's era prior to the introduction of those stupid DRS and re-fueling rules :frusty:

Another reason why F1 went down is because its pretty much one sided. There is alot of funding to Ferrari, Mercedes and Red-Bull while other teams are getting spare change. Hence everyone knows one of them will be the winner. Also, the big reason NOISE :doh:. I am all about F-1 using the most advanced technology but current cars sound like vacuum cleaners.

I understand they have lost a bit of their audience but they still seem to be the top dog.

I agree with you on the noise.

Want to talk about noise.... One of the Indycar races I went to had a race with electric open wheel cars before the big race. I just couldn't get over how weird it was seeing these cars zip by all silent like.

 

[tom_sprecher]

Here is a good explanation of the differences between a spoiler and a wing that even a child could understand.

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/wings-spoilers-youre-probably-doing-it-wrong-1665312667

Since reading comprehension is obviously not a strong point for some of our members here are some educational videos.

[ame]

[ame]

For the rest of us this is one of my favorite books on the subject.

https://www.amazon.com/Race-Car-Aerodynamics-Engineering-Performance/dp/0837601428

I have the first edition that I bought in 2003 maybe. Spoiler Alert! (no pun intended) it is not for the weak minded. Aerodynamics are hard.

Also, this is a good one too from when I was in engineering school. From what I have seen it would prove useful to some who post here.

https://www.amazon.com/Little-Brown-Handbook-12th/dp/0205213073

 

[S550ilver]

Oh boy....a dong slinging contest! LOL

Sponsored