MY VOODOO IS USING OIL !

[smsgt350]

Pardon my mechanical ignorance but how did they narrow it down to the two valves if the compression was OK?

Thanks for keep us posted SMS.

I never asked them exactly how they figured it out. They were searching using a borescope as well I was told.

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[jasonstang]

And how is valve seat causing loosing oil?
Hope they don't just use it as an excuse to open the head up and look at the pistons and the walls.

 

[stanglife]

Pardon my mechanical ignorance but how did they narrow it down to the two valves if the compression was OK?

Thanks for keep us posted SMS.

I'm always a little skeptical of dealer work but if that's what they did and they are correct - then one way they might have determined it is seeing oil or extra carbon around that valve in the combustion chamber. Personally, if I suspected valve seals, I would pull the intake and look at the valve pockets.

I might have missed it, but was it smoking on startup? That's a pretty common symptom of valve seals.

 

[GTBOB]

And how is valve seat causing loosing oil?
Hope they don't just use it as an excuse to open the head up and look at the pistons and the walls.

Valve seals not seats.;)

 

[smsgt350]

I'm always a little skeptical of dealer work but if that's what they did and they are correct - then one way they might have determined it is seeing oil or extra carbon around that valve in the combustion chamber. Personally, if I suspected valve seals, I would pull the intake and look at the valve pockets.

I might have missed it, but was it smoking on startup? That's a pretty common symptom of valve seals.

The fact that it's not smoking on startup has me questioning the valve seal remedy as well!!

 

[FordTechOne]

Regardless any modern engine should not burn oil. It's not hard to make an engine not burn oil. Toyota has been doing it for years.
Now, with the forged pistons in the Voodoo, which slap a little when cold due to different expansion rate between different materials. If you are one of these who warm up the engine by idling for 5-10 minutes, you are going to go through more oil than those warm up by driving.

Toyota has been doing WHAT for years? Claiming that there is no issue with their engines, all while they drink enough oil to cause them to lock up? Just had another one roll in today, this time a Scion, only 1,000 miles since and oil change and not a drop on the dipstick. Time for an engine on the customer's dime! :lol:

http://www.toyoheadquarters.com/threads/excessive-oil-consumption-on-2az-fe-engine-lsc-ze7.362/

Obviously you keep trying to justify your poor choice of buying a Toyota, but don't bring it into the discussion. It's not the least bit relevant.

 

[NipSC4328]

The fact that it's not smoking on startup has me questioning the valve seal remedy as well!!

Same here, bad valve seals normally smoke worst at cold start up after setting for awhile. Does anyone here know if the engine comes with neoprene "umbrella" type sales or something like Perfect Circle teflon seals?

 

[50 Deep]

If the valve seal is bad then oil gets in the cylinder and causes smoke. No smoke seems odd for that issue.

Only way to test the valve seals and cylinder heads is with a leak down test. Did you inquire if that was done also?

 

[NipSC4328]

If the valve seal is bad then oil gets in the cylinder and causes smoke. No smoke seems odd for that issue.

Only way to test the valve seals and cylinder heads is with a leak down test. Did you inquire if that was done also?

I could be wrong (it has happened) but unless your valves are leaking past the valve "seats" then the valve stem "seals" don't come into play. We always did a three angle grind and then lapped the valves ands seats on high performance heads to promote a better seal. I think I've read about some shops doing five angle grinds. A leakdown test is performed with the valves closed and will detect a leak at the valve seats, piston rings or head gasket. The valve seals are oil seals and don't seal compression or vacuum. To be honest, I'm not sure how you would test for a leak at the seals. A borescope would let you look for oil in the valve pockets without having to pull the heads though.

 

[Tank]

Just had another one roll in today, this time a Scion, only 1,000 miles since and oil change and not a drop on the dipstick. Time for an engine on the customer's dime! :lol:

This could be one reason some folks distrust dealers and techs, just saying...

 

[smsgt350]

If the valve seal is bad then oil gets in the cylinder and causes smoke. No smoke seems odd for that issue.

Only way to test the valve seals and cylinder heads is with a leak down test. Did you inquire if that was done also?

Just contacted my dealer. They did a leak down test and two cylinders leaked from the valves. I video taped my cold start this morning and not a trace of blue smoke though?? Im burning through a quart every 500 miles.Doesnt that seem excessive for two tiny valve stem seals to be letting that much through??

 

[50 Deep]

I could be wrong (it has happened) but unless your valves are leaking past the valve "seats" then the valve stem "seals" don't come into play. We always did a three angle grind and then lapped the valves ands seats on high performance heads to promote a better seal. I think I've read about some shops doing five angle grinds. A leakdown test is performed with the valves closed and will detect a leak at the valve seats, piston rings or head gasket. The valve seals are oil seals and don't seal compression or vacuum. To be honest, I'm not sure how you would test for a leak at the seals. A borescope would let you look for oil in the valve pockets without having to pull the heads though.

The valve seals still come into play. The top of the valve is enclosed inside of the valve cover. The cam shafts, springs, rocker arms, valve stems, etc are all lubricated by oil inside of the valve cover. If the seal is bad then oil is able to leak down into the cylinder everytime the camshaft rotates and opens the valve. The 4V ford motors hold a ton of oil in the heads during operation since all those parts need to stay lubricated, especially at high RPM. The valve seat is located on the bottom of the head inside the combustion chamber. Everytime the valve opens to pull in air or let out exhaust oil is draining down into the cylinder. It could also be due to excessive valve guide wear, which is what plagued the early 2003 cobra motors.

Just contacted my dealer. They did a leak down test and two cylinders leaked from the valves. I video taped my cold start this morning and not a trace of blue smoke though?? Im burning through a quart every 500 miles.Doesnt that seem excessive for two tiny valve stem seals to be letting that much through??

Depending on how bad the leak is it can consume a lot. You have to think about how much oil is contained in the cylinder heads by all the moving parts and how many thousands of times the valves are opening and closing. THis motor operates at high RPM and will suck in plenty of oil. The unusual part is the lack of smoke, which should be blowing out of the tail pipe from burned oil in the combustion chamber. The only reason I could see there being no smoke is if the catalytic converters are catching all of it. I've had a motor with bad valve guides and the tail pipe let you know right away. In any case I would ask about having the catalytic converters replaced as well since they likely have been exposed to oil and could affect their longevity.

 

[NipSC4328]

Just contacted my dealer. They did a leak down test and two cylinders leaked from the valves. I video taped my cold start this morning and not a trace of blue smoke though?? Im burning through a quart every 500 miles.Doesnt that seem excessive for two tiny valve stem seals to be letting that much through??

OK, so now I've got to quiz a few of my "professional" mechanic friends and learn how a leak down test can detect bad valve seals. Leaking by the valves (to me) would indicate a valve or bad seat. Even a guide would be isolated when the valves are closed. We always leak tested our race engines after a weekend event to check for valve, valve seat, ring, or gasket problems. When I was young and could only afford to drive worn out vehicles I replaced valve seals several times ... all these engines smoked at cold startup.

In any case, if it truly is a valve seal issue it should be easily remedied.

And yes, a quart every 500 miles does seem like an excessive amount for leaking valve seals.

 

[smsgt350]

OK, so now I've got to quiz a few of my "professional" mechanic friends and learn how a leak down test can detect bad valve seals. Leaking by the valves (to me) would indicate a valve or bad seat. Even a guide would be isolated when the valves are closed. We always leak tested our race engines after a weekend event to check for valve, valve seat, ring, or gasket problems. When I was young and could only afford to drive worn out vehicles I replaced valve seals several times ... all these engines smoked at cold startup.

In any case, if it truly is a valve seal issue it should be easily remedied.

And yes, a quart every 500 miles does seem like an excessive amount for leaking valve seals.

You read my mind. I dont understand hwo a leak down test can pinpoint a valve seal!! When i questioned the dealer they said since the seal leaks into the cylinder every time it opens it can consume alot of oil ...not exactly explaining it lol

 

[NipSC4328]

So, are we to ass-u-me they ran a leak down test with the valves open?

I understand very well how the seats and seals function. When the valve is open oil can enter the chamber through guides if the seal is leaking. What I fail to comprehend is how pressure can reach the seal if the valve is closed, as required in a leak down test.

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