Motor tick....

[BlownGP]

I thought I heard mine ticking the other day but when I was changing the T-stat today letting get to temp to see if it's working. I didn't hear any tick.

Funny thing is I have a Ram Hemi and they have a horrible ticking problem stock. But it's supposed to be normal so to me ticking is not a bad thing. lol

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[Enzo]

I thought I heard mine ticking the other day but when I was changing the T-stat today letting get to temp to see if it's working. I didn't hear any tick.

Funny thing is I have a Ram Hemi and they have a horrible ticking problem stock. But it's supposed to be normal so to me ticking is not a bad thing. lol

The hemi tick is different. This sounds more like metal cooling off type of tick.

 

[TheLion]

I will see if it ticks today after work. Im also getting ready to install a whipple soon so i want to make sure i don't have any issues with the motor first.

I wonder if this might be timing chain slap or lash adjuster induced tick due to foaming or viscosity variations in the oil. Could also be cam phasor tick. Cam phasor and timing chain typically can produce the most erratic sounds due to changing engine loads where lash adjuster tick is usually pretty consistent.

If you read through the Amsoil reviews, there was one or two with Ford 5.4L tritons where the review said he never had any mechanical noises, tried Amsoil XL and got a loud ticking. He then went back to MC Semi-syn and it went away. The truck had some 200k miles on it with no prior mechanical issues. And that's an older much more primitive 5.4, but it does have hudraulic timing chain guides and variable valve timing. Not sure if it uses hydraulic lash adjusters of if those us DAMBs etc.

Oil performs three tasks in a modern engine and one that's designed for thinner viscosity 5W-20 is going to be more sensitive to changes in viscosity even if it isn't harmful (long or short term): 1. Lubrication, we all know that one 2. Hydraulic fluid 3. Cooling of bearing surfaces and piston heads (coyote has oil squirters).

Factory MC 5W-20 semi-syn is always a safe bet to go back to. Is it the best oil? No, but it is actually a very good oil, as good as many off the shelf synthetics. It's only weakness is a higher boil off rate, however it's a fairly clean oil with excellent wear properties and the newer formulas are also knock and LSPI resistance (right on MC's site they now list ILSAC Plus). While we don't have to worry about LSPI in NA V8's, oils formulated for that also reduce knock in NA engines and keep the journals, bearing surfaces, rings, lands and grooves cleaner.

The 5.0 seems sensitive to viscosity index variations and different formulations of 5W-20 have some variation from manufacturer to manufacturer that is still within the 5W-20 spec.

I tried Pensoil Ultra Platinum (their older formula that wasn't Dexos 1 Gen 2 certified) on my 2nd oil change at 10k miles. I noticed a little more clankiness from the engine, normal noises seemed louder and more pronounced. But I never had any issues and it did work very well, my fuel mileage was slightly higher and it just seemed to have a tad more edge than with MC 5W-20. Given that oil lubricates 32 cams, 7 bearings, 8 wrist pins, 2 timing chains and 8 sets of pistons / rings, it's excellent friction reducing properties can actually make a difference, but for some reason it did seem a tad noisier although nothing out of the ordinary.

Going to try Mobil 1 Advanced Synthetic next which has VERY similar viscosity index to MC Semi-syn and MC Full Synthetic oils and see how that goes. I always use OE FL500S filters because many off the shelf ones don't have an anti-drain back valve for cold start wear protection, can't go wrong there either. I believe Valvoline, Mobil 1, Penzoil and Amsoil all have oils that meet the Ford spec and are also knock resistant formulas (Dexos 1 Gen 2 or ILSAC GF-5 Plus certified) now on the market, but who knows, obviously some of their flow properties and additives can cause some issues in some case, but I do not believe any of them to be harmful from my own experiences.

I'd give MC 5W-20 a try for a while and see if the noise goes away.

 

[TheLion]

By the way, I just spoke with Ford Performance on oil choices. One, they said that the CTA Phasors are particularly sensitive to oil viscosity and viscosity changes and respond differently especially if you use oil that is not factory viscosity spec. Kind throws the "use 5W-30 for track" out the window. There's also a higher risk of oil starvation of the rod bearings due to decreased flow. Not a good idea! If your oil is getting too hot, you need better cooling....but I digress.

This might be a confirmation of where this intermittent BBQ tick or similar ticks that don't cause CEL's or any drive ability issues comes from. Remember those phasors are constantly changing position throughout the RPM and load range. They may be in a different position at 3000 RPM at 50% throttle than at 3000 RPM at 100% throttle. They may be in a different position at 2500 RPM at 100% throttle than at 5000 RPM at 100% throttle. Load and RPM change constantly, even when just revving the engine in neutral when posting these videos.

Now i'd imagine any 5W-20 that meets Ford's spec should be ok to use, but it's entirely possible that the varying viscosity indexes may cause differences in noise. Some may foam or bubble more than others. They certainly affect how the cam phasors respond to position change commands from the ECU and that's straight from Ford Performance. When in doubt, it never hurts to go back to OE until you figure out the issue.

 

[GT Pony]

By the way, I just spoke with Ford Performance on oil choices. One, they said that the CTA Phasors are particularly sensitive to oil viscosity and viscosity changes and respond differently especially if you use oil that is not factory viscosity spec. Kind throws the "use 5W-30 for track" out the window.

These engines can't be that sensitive to oil viscosity, otherwise Ford wouldn't specify 5W-50 for the Boss or spec 5W-30 for the Australian S550 V8 Coyote. Notice that not many if any reports of engine ticking come from the Australian members here.

If these engines were that sensitive, they wouldn't run right with 5W-20 until the oil was 200+ deg F. 5W-30 at 200 F is basically the same viscosity as 5W-20 at 190 F. Are these engines being damaged or don't run right if the 5W-20 is 190 F or colder?

There's also a higher risk of oil starvation of the rod bearings due to decreased flow. Not a good idea! If your oil is getting too hot, you need better cooling....but I digress.

Oil flow volume should remain the same due to the positive displacement oil pump. At oil temp of 200 F the oil pressure difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30 will be hard to notice even with a good oil pressure gauge.

 

[TheLion]

These engines can't be that sensitive to oil viscosity, otherwise Ford wouldn't specify 5W-50 for the Boss or spec 5W-30 for the Australian S550 V8 Coyote. Notice that not many if any reports of engine ticking come from the Australian members here.

If these engines were that sensitive, they wouldn't run right with 5W-20 until the oil was 200+ deg F. 5W-30 at 200 F is basically the same viscosity as 5W-20 at 190 F. Are these engines being damaged or don't run right if the 5W-20 is 190 F or colder?



Oil flow volume should remain the same due to the positive displacement oil pump. At oil temp of 200 F the oil pressure difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30 will be hard to notice even with a good oil pressure gauge.

There's at 21.5% difference in viscosity at 100C and 26% difference at 40C just with MC Semi-syn 5W-20 vs. MC Semi-syn 5W-30. That's a very substantial difference. But I suppose you know more about calibrating the four Mid-Lock phasors than Ford Performance does...because you said they must not be sensitive to oil viscosity, it must be so . Running thicker oil in a stock 5.0 bottom end than is specified is not a good idea.

The Boss 302 is a different engine than the 2nd gen 5.0. While several of it's rotating assembly components are used in the 2nd gen stock 5.0, there are still quite a few differences including the rod bearings, heads, intake manifold, oil pump, crank etc. Also the Australian 5.0 is obviously not identical to the US 5.0. Weather it's just engine tuning or there are other hardware difference I don't know, but they are NOT the same. How do you know the Australian version doesn't user looser tolerances in the bearing surfaces for some reason (could be cost related, emissions related or the availability of certain grades of oil etc.)? What ever the case, the reality remains that the mid-lock phasors are sensitive to oil viscosity and do NOT respond the same when you change viscosity.

Thicker oils don't actually protect your engine better from wear. The only reason to use a thicker oil is a compensate for excessive heat you can't control through cooling so your oil doesn't thin out too much and thus you loose oil pressure and consequently flow rates drop which can lead to oil starvation. That's how one ends up with a scored rod bearing.

Assuming flow is appropriate for the given viscosity and temperature is controlled, 5W-20 lubricates just as well as 5W-30, however your oil pump losses are lower with 5W-20, 5W-20 is also more temperature stable than 5W-30. The change in viscosity for 5W-30 is 54 centi-stokes from 40 to 100C, but only 41 for 5W-20. The closer together the two numbers are, the less change in viscosity occurs from cold to hot, which makes flow rates more consistent and reduces engine wear.

Viscosity is chosen based on bearing clearances, flow rates and temperature range with a given oil pump and engine. Using a thicker oil and originally designed for will reduce flow rates unless your running a non-factory higher pressure pump (we're talking using the same bearing clearances). Or if your pump can compensate by maintaining a higher pressure, your risk of oil pump damage increases. Higher oil pressure = more energy = less power to the wheels.

As oil technology improves, oil suppliers are able to actually manufacture oil viscosity grades with better temperature stability at a reasonable cost and less stable grades are more gradually phased out. Also tighter machining tolerances are typically more costly to use in manufacture, so in some cases it doesn't make sense to use tolerances required for 5W-20 and 5W-30 is still used depend on the engine's requirements, however more and more engines are now using 5W-20.

5W-20 isn't just about fuel economy, it's also about making the most power you can as I stated above. The BRZ for example uses 0W-20 in it's FA-20 NA boxer engine. While 200 HP isn't that much by today's standards as an absolute number, it's also an NA engine and only 2.0L, so 100 HP per a liter is pretty good and not too many engines have achieved that (the 2.2L in the Honda S2000 and a handfull of Euro super cars from Ferrari, McLaren etc.). Oil viscosity is a part of that equation for the FA-20 just like it is for the 5.0.

But hey, if you want to run 5W-30 in an engine that has bearing clearances specked for 5W-20, go right ahead, but don't complain when your not making as much wheel power, your burn up a rod bearing due to oil starvation or the engine doesn't run right because the came phasors aren't responding like their are supposed to to position change commands...I'm gonna stick with the factory speck unless I do a custom built bottom end with non-factory clearances that require a higher viscosity oil.

It may not occur immediately, but over time as the engine packs on miles, wear rates will be increased during any daily type of use. It's possible to run a higher than specified viscosity for a very specific application. For example, you run 5W-30 only while your on the track and after letting the engine to come up to full temp during a 15 minute idle time. The 5W-30 may allow you to keep your oil viscosity within the same range on an extreme hot day and a long track session where the factory spec 5W-20 would be over heating and thinning out.

However as I said, that's a band aid for proper cooling. If you have properly cooled oil, it won't get that hot and there's no need to run something out of spec where you have to sit and wait for it to warm up to avoid issues.

 

[TheLion]

And if memory serves correctly, the majority of owners with a sever tick DID NOT resolve that issue by using 5W-30. At most they said it made a minimal difference, if any at all. So kinda throws that as a solution right out of the window.

My bet is that it's one of three things: 1. a rod bearing failure, we've seen a couple, however they were throwing codes pretty soon after it started 2. Out of round cylinder or improper cylinder machining, again those cars are throwing misfire codes pretty soon after 3. Cam phasor tick, these cars don't throw codes, the ticks seem random and there's usually not much in the way of noticeable drive ability issues.

More than 1 issue could sound like the "BBQ" tick. Different phones, different ears, different speakers, different environments can make different issues sound similar, so not all cars with BBQ tick have a major problem, while others do. But changing to a non-factory spec viscosity of oil isn't going to solve the issue.

 

[GT Pony]

There's at 21.5% difference in viscosity at 100C and 26% difference at 40C just with MC Semi-syn 5W-20 vs. MC Semi-syn 5W-30. That's a very substantial difference. But I suppose you know more about calibrating the four Mid-Lock phasors than Ford Performance does...because you said they must not be sensitive to oil viscosity, it must be so . Running thicker oil in a stock 5.0 bottom end than is specified is not a good idea.

You do realize I hope that the viscosity of 5W-30 at 200 F is basically the same as 5W-20 at ~190 F. So if you're claiming it's bad to run 5W-30 then I guess it's also bad to drive the car above an idle with 5W-20 if the oil temperature is below 190 F. Has anyone here ever got on their Coyote when the oil is below 190 F ... did she blow up?

The Boss 302 is a different engine than the 2nd gen 5.0. While several of it's rotating assembly components are used in the 2nd gen stock 5.0, there are still quite a few differences including the rod bearings, heads, intake manifold, oil pump, crank etc. Also the Australian 5.0 is obviously not identical to the US 5.0.

How do you know the Australian version doesn't user looser tolerances in the bearing surfaces for some reason (could be cost related, emissions related or the availability of certain grades of oil etc.)? What ever the case, the reality remains that the mid-lock phasors are sensitive to oil viscosity and do NOT respond the same when you change viscosity.

Now why would Ford make all the bearing clearances looser in Australian Coyotes? I bet if you look at the part numbers and the FSM clearance specs you'll probably see it's all the same. If someone has access to all that info, please post it up.

Thicker oils don't actually protect your engine better from wear. The only reason to use a thicker oil is a compensate for excessive heat you can't control through cooling so your oil doesn't thin out too much and thus you loose oil pressure and consequently flow rates drop which can lead to oil starvation. That's how one ends up with a scored rod bearing.

You actually said in a round about way that thicker oils do protect more because they don't thin out as much with heat, which is true. Therefore a thicker oil also gives a larger film thickness in the journal bearing and between moving parts, which is the primary way to preventing metal-to-metal contact and wear. Losing oil pressure as the oil thins down doesn't mean you've lost oil flow, and oil pressure really doesn't provide the protection - the oil film strength does that. Study up on journal bearings and how they flow oil. Less oil pressure just means it takes less pressure to move the same volume of oil through the fixed resistance path of the engine's oiling system. The positive displacement oil pump pretty much maintains the same oil volume flow vs engine RPM as the oil thins down.

Assuming flow is appropriate for the given viscosity and temperature is controlled, 5W-20 lubricates just as well as 5W-30, however your oil pump losses are lower with 5W-20, 5W-20 is also more temperature stable than 5W-30. The change in viscosity for 5W-30 is 54 centi-stokes from 40 to 100C, but only 41 for 5W-20. The closer together the two numbers are, the less change in viscosity occurs from cold to hot, which makes flow rates more consistent and reduces engine wear.

VI doesn't matter as much as what the actual oil viscosity is at temperature ... and also what the HTHS is of the oil. Same weight oils can have different HTHS ratings, so I always try to choose and oil with a HTHS if they manufacture lists the property. The thicker the oil is at temperature, the more film thickness there will be between parts, and that's what keeps parts from touching and wearing. Running 5W-30 instead of 5W-20 gives some added film thickness at full operating temperature, and assurance that metal-to-metal contact won't happen when pushing hard which raises oil temps above normal street driving temperatures.

Viscosity is chosen based on bearing clearances, flow rates and temperature range with a given oil pump and engine. Using a thicker oil and originally designed for will reduce flow rates unless your running a non-factory higher pressure pump (we're talking using the same bearing clearances). Or if your pump can compensate by maintaining a higher pressure, your risk of oil pump damage increases. Higher oil pressure = more energy = less power to the wheels.

As long as the positive displacement oil pump isn't in pressure relief with thicker oil, then the volumetric flow rate will essentially be the same.

But hey, if you want to run 5W-30 in an engine that has bearing clearances specked for 5W-20, go right ahead, but don't complain when your not making as much wheel power, your burn up a rod bearing due to oil starvation or the engine doesn't run right because the came phasors aren't responding like their are supposed to to position change commands...I'm gonna stick with the factory speck unless I do a custom built bottom end with non-factory clearances that require a higher viscosity oil.

Guess Ford better stop specifying 5W-30 for Australian Coyotes and also thicker oils for track us. The reason the Australian Coyotes get 5W-30 is because of the hot climate there in the summer time .... but Ford says to run it all year long. Aussies would be pissed if they had to change oil for their colder time of the year. I haven't researched, but I'd bet Ford also specs 5W-30 all the time for Coyotes in other very hot climates.

 

[GT Pony]

My bet is that it's one of three things: 1. a rod bearing failure, we've seen a couple ...

Probably from street racing with 5W-20 .... LOL. Had to say it.

 

[TheLion]

Hot climate for the Aussies is probably why, I didn't think of the fact that they don't really see "winter conditions". However 5W-20 will provide the best average protection over the typical range of temperatures in north america. You will also make more power to the wheels with 5W-20 than with 5W-30 in the 5.0. Why? Thinner oils have lower pump losses. Also the tighter bearing clearances require thinner oils to maintain proper flow rates and prevent the oil from over heating, causing pressure loss and breakdown. Flow rates go hand in hand with pressure and temperature.

Flow rates are determined by the pressure behind the fluid, higher pressure = higher flow rate up to the limit of the tube or vein which the fluid travels through, at some point higher pressure has a diminishing return due to drag and the rate at which the molecules of the fluid can move around each other, but in general higher pressure = higher flow rate. A more viscous fluid will have a lower rate of flow at the same pressure. Try blowing honey through a straw, then try blowing water through it. Honey is very viscous, water is not. Your applying the same pressure through the same sized tube...now imagine that fluid is being heated. If you want to avoid over heating the fluid you need to keep it cycling through to limit thermal transfer so it doesn't boil. And as a side effect, as it heats up, pressure is lost, flow rates decline and thermal transfer increases. It's a cycle that becomes exponential very rapidly.

Thicker oils don't always provide more protection. It depends on the application and I never once said there is no application or situation to run thicker oils. What I said was running 5W-30 is not going to "fix" the ticking in an engine specified for 5W-20 in typical use. Track is NOT what is car is used for and is not his issue. Also if the oil temperature is controlled properly, running a thicker oil may actually cause increased heating due to longer dwell time in the bearings, higher resistance in the engine etc.

The oil film only protects the bearings for a few seconds at best before the oil pump pressurizes the bearings during startup. The bearings in the crank are hydraulic and do not rely on film strength but rather the hydraulic pressure keeping the metal surfaces from touching. Film is a single layer that clings to the surfaces to protect them for a short period of time during cold starts before there is adequate pressure for the fluid bearing. Without adequate pressure, the bearing collapses and you get metal on metal contact as the thin film quickly shears and over heats. There's a difference between using a hydraulic pressure and using a thin layer of film to prevent metal on metal contact.

Film strength offers only a minor level of protection for low heat and load, typically ball bearings are examples of film based bearings, so are cam lobes which rely on film strength rather than hydraulic pressure. Hydraulic pressure actually separates the bearing surfaces through hydraulic force and is more of a mechanical effect. Pressurized hydraulic bearings are thousands if not millions of molecules thick while a layer of film coating the surface is only a few molecules thick and relies entirely on the integrity of the lubricant structure.

It is two different mechanisms and hydraulic bearings are highly sensitive to pressure, viscosity and flow rates. Technically you could make a hydraulic bearing using water if you had enough pressure and could achieve enough flow to prevent boiling....but because oil is used as a hydraulic fluid (crank bearings, cam phasors, lash adjusters and timing chain tensioners) and it is also used as a film lubricant (cam lobes, chain guides and chain links), water wouldn't work very well as it fails miserably at the latter application.

Crank bearings are Fluid Bearings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_bearing

Here's an example straight from Petrol Canada on the very issue of oil that is too thick:

All oils must enable engines to perform
through a wide range of temperatures
while minimizing wear. To achieve this,
engine oil formulators rely on Viscosity
Index Improvers (VII) to deliver the
required viscosity performance in both
low shear and high shear operating
conditions, while being exposed to a
wide range of lubricant temperatures –
very cold to very hot.

When low shear is encountered, such
as in the oil lines and the sump, oil that
is too thick can cause oil starvation.

Again, running a thicker oil than specified is not a good idea unless your in a constant high temperature state. Track days themselves may not dictate using a high viscosity oil, if it's only 60F outside, your going to rob your car of power and reduce flow rates which may actually cause excessive heating of the oil in the bearings due to increased dwell times....there was no indication in this thread of such use. So recommending 5W-30 for a street application is not going to help unless he is always in an excessively hot environment and will only exacerbate the issue.

But we could keep arguing on and on and on. 5W-30 won't solve his issue. Period. And he already sold the car so I suppose it doesn't matter anyway. I'll close with this: thicker oil is not always better even on the track. Thick oils will ALWAYS reduce rear wheel horse power, but in some extreme conditions where the factory viscosity is right at an upper or lower limit frequently, yes changing viscosity may offer better protection, however that is very specific and no the case for 90% of us.

 

[GT Pony]

Hot climate for the Aussies is probably why, I didn't think of the fact that they don't really see "winter conditions". However 5W-20 will provide the best average protection over the typical range of temperatures in north america. You will also make more power to the wheels with 5W-20 than with 5W-30 in the 5.0. Why? Thinner oils have lower pump losses.

Also, keep in mind that cars sold outside the USA don't fall under CAFE standards, so Ford can spec 5W-30 and not get fined for doing so. There are lots of places in the USA that get just as hot as Australia in the summer time.

Also the tighter bearing clearances require thinner oils to maintain proper flow rates and prevent the oil from over heating, causing pressure loss and breakdown. Flow rates go hand in hand with pressure and temperature.

Flow rates are determined by the pressure behind the fluid, higher pressure = higher flow rate up to the limit of the tube or vein which the fluid travels through, at some point higher pressure has a diminishing return due to drag and the rate at which the molecules of the fluid can move around each other, but in general higher pressure = higher flow rate. A more viscous fluid will have a lower rate of flow at the same pressure. Try blowing honey through a straw, then try blowing water through it. Honey is very viscous, water is not. Your applying the same pressure through the same sized tube...now imagine that fluid is being heated. If you want to avoid over heating the fluid you need to keep it cycling through to limit thermal transfer so it doesn't boil. And as a side effect, as it heats up, pressure is lost, flow rates decline and thermal transfer increases. It's a cycle that becomes exponential very rapidly.

Actually with a positive displacement oil pump, flow is mechanically forced through the oiling system, and the resulting pressure you see is a product of the resistance to flow and the viscosity of the oil. That's why oil pressure goes down as the oil warms up - the flow rate is still the same, the pressure drop just means the oil is easier to mechanically push through the oiling system when it's hot and thin.

The oiling system using a positive displacement oil pump is not a "constant pressure" source like a garden hose ... it's positive volume displacement fed. The description you give above about flow and pressure would hold true if you are talking about a garden hose with a fixed pressure on one end of the hose.

A good healthy positive displacement oil pump will basically maintain the same volume output flow vs engine RPM regardless of the oil viscosity. That's why using a heavier oil than 5W-20 will not "starve" the engine of oil flow ... the same flow rate will be going through the engine, but it will be at a slightly higher pressure in order to maintain that same flow with thicker oil.

There is a lot more to worry about in terms of flow and oiling when using a much thicker oil in very cold temperatures during cold start-ups. But 5W-30 is basically a year round viscosity except in super extreme cold climates where a 0W oil would flow better when cold. Like mentioned before, 5W-30 at 200 F is the same viscosity as 5W-20 at 190F. Not much of a viscosity difference when hot, but 5W-30 will give some added protection for the engine when the oil temperature gets near the 250 F mark. 5W-30 also has a higher HTHS (high temp, high shear) which really matters with elevated oil temperatures. Sure, not many guys may push their cars enough to get the oil that hot, but having 5W-30 in the sump is insurance that it's going to still protect well if temperatures do rise above normal street driving levels. I would never track a car with 5W-20, that's for sure.

The reason Ford speced 5W-50 for the Boss 302 Coyote is because they figured people would be racing and pushing those cars much harder than granny going to the grocery store, and they didn't want to see engines get smoked from lack of proper oil viscosity. They figured they could take a CAFE hit with the Boss 302.

What I said was running 5W-30 is not going to "fix" the ticking in an engine specified for 5W-20 in typical use.

What's strange is nobody on this chat board from Australia has complained of a ticking Coyote. Coincidence? I wonder if 5W-30 was in the USA Coyotes from the factory, would there be less cases of ticking Coyotes? Maybe once the tick starts damage of some sort has already been done.

Hydraulic pressure actually separates the bearing surfaces through hydraulic force and is more of a mechanical effect. Pressurized hydraulic bearings are thousands if not millions of molecules thick while a layer of film coating the surface is only a few molecules thick and relies entirely on the integrity of the lubricant structure.It is two different mechanisms and hydraulic bearings are highly sensitive to pressure, viscosity and flow rates.

You might find this interesting. As you can see, the MOFT (minimum oil film thickness), which is what keeps the bearing from making metal-to-metal contact, increases with thicker oil. And yes, there is some increased frictional loss (more oil shearing) and slightly more temperature increase. But IMO, the MOFT is the most critical factor in keeping bearings from damage with elevated oil temperatures. The flow value shown is what the bearing flows naturally without a pressure fed oiling system (ie, positive displacement oil pump), so I'd suspect with the slight increase in oil pressure with the slightly thicker oil that the flow values through the bearings would be a lot closer to each other. Also notice that MOFT increases simply from RPM. That's why it's bad to "lug" an engine, especially if the oil if very hot and thin when the MOFT is the thinnest.

 

[RaceRed5.0]

Wow glad it worked out for you in the end, shame they had to do a whole engine replacement, at least it was covered I hope by the warranty?

 

[DCC]

In 2016, my father's 2013 Boss 302 developed this tick at 6,400 miles. It was immediately following an oil change, Motorcraft 5W-50. Dad is meticulous and has the oil changed every spring for service even though it usually only has a few hundred miles between services.

We took it to the dealer and they asked us to put some miles on it to see if the tick would get worse the more we drove or if it would go away after getting some heat cycles on the oil. We put a hundred miles on the car over the weekend but the ticking never stopped though interestingly it seemed like it got better when using the track key. Honestly, I had a blast trying to make that engine tick louder. How often do you have a dealer tell you to go and see if it will blow-up or fix itself?

We took the car back to the dealer the following Monday. Dad was actually waiting for them when they opened. He did that only because he didn't know where the service advisor's house was or he would have met him there. They called Ford and they walked through a few test that ultimately resulted in retorqueing the head bolts. The ticking continued so they concluded that one of the cylinder bores had to be out of round and causing piston slap. They replaced the motor, a complete long block, under warranty (the extended warranty paid off!) Dad was glad they fixed it but was a little upset that the original engine had to be replaced. He views the car as a collectable and wanted to keep it as original as possible.

The following spring, 400 miles on the new engine and immediately following an oil change, Motorcraft 5w-50, the new engine began making the same ticking noise. Dad was less than thrilled and took it, along with an attitude, back to the dealership. They asked him to drive the car more than a weekend to see what would happen. After a few hundred miles but several months this time, the ticking stopped. They said that this was becoming more common but just putting some miles on the engine following the oil change would usually fix the issue.

At SEMA, I ran the problem past several people from Ford and other companies. Lake Speed Jr. of Joe Gibbs - Driven Oils was one of the few that was aware of the problem. He felt that the oil additive packages, not the oil weight played a roll in the noise. Since he knew what I was talking about and was confident their oil would address it, we bought 8 quarts. This spring, for the annual oil change we switched the car over to Driven 5w-50 and had no issues since. Dad drove it from Georgia to the Carlisle PA show in June and reported no further problems, much to the relief of the service advisor.

My personal thought is it has to do with either the timing chain tensioners or the cam phasers. Something that is dependent upon the oil pressure to adjust the engine's tolerances isn't receiving enough pressure to remain fully pumped up or fully engaged and is causing the tick. After the oil gets a little dirty, its thickened a smidge and then able to hold pressure. It would also explain why additive packages may make a difference. Thats my speculation at least.

 

[Zinc03svt]

Anyone else try Hyper-Lube Zinc Replacement? I ran that in my 14 Gen I coyote and multiple other platforms. Never had any ticks or noises and was spinning that one to 7700 rpms on cj package. My 18 got a bottle at 250 miles. Quiet as a mouse fart. Research KetJenLube 135. http://www.vento.com.vn/docs/en/Surfactants/Lubricant additive/Lubricant Additive.pdf
I have plenty of video at different mileage increments for dealer verification should worse ever come to pass. Fyi...

 

[DCC]

I bet it does make it quiet. I asked about adding a zinc additive but was told by Ford to avoid the zinc, it will eventually plug the converters.

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