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GT Pony
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The engine ticking (talking about the "BBQ Tick") right after an oil change and not going away is definately bizarre behavior. Especially when the same oil brand and viscosity is put back in. It's been how many years of this going on and Ford nor anyone else has found the root cause. When Ford replaces an engine because of the ticking suddenly showing up tells me they don't consider it to be "normal". If it was normal I think they would of had a TSB out saying so many years ago .
kenand1988
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I just brought my 16 GT in for the ticking sound 2 weeks ago. New short block, timing chain, tensioner and guides are going in under warranty.
I read through the thread and I'll just chime in about the shop's diagnostic for the engine.
#1 they locked the cam phasers and the noise was still present
#2 they changed all the lash adjusters and the noise was still present
#3 inspected the timing chain and tensioner and found no issues
They then consulted a Ford engineer who said the problem was in the short block. When I pressed the service mgr for more details about what the problem could be he just said it could be any number of things but they would specifically look at the rods, bearings, and windage tray.
I asked the service mgr about oil weights and his answer was basically keep it 5w or below. I live in Phx and he saw running a 5w30 or even a 0w50 on a boosted engine would not caused premature wear.
I read through the thread and I'll just chime in about the shop's diagnostic for the engine.
#1 they locked the cam phasers and the noise was still present
#2 they changed all the lash adjusters and the noise was still present
#3 inspected the timing chain and tensioner and found no issues
They then consulted a Ford engineer who said the problem was in the short block. When I pressed the service mgr for more details about what the problem could be he just said it could be any number of things but they would specifically look at the rods, bearings, and windage tray.
I asked the service mgr about oil weights and his answer was basically keep it 5w or below. I live in Phx and he saw running a 5w30 or even a 0w50 on a boosted engine would not caused premature wear.
Captain Trips
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My '17 Mustang has a build date of July 2017 and has made this sound from day 1. The symptoms can always be found under part throttle, up to 2000rpm, while rolling in gear (MT82) at light loads or when under no load out of gear. I have always used the OE filter and run Penzoil Platinum 5W20. I have also done Blackstone oil analyses on every drain and they come back pristine. The motor is silent at idle and at higher rpms. It will also never tick/click when above third gear or when there is a good load on the drive line. At full operating temperature in the summer heat, the car makes 20psi of oil pressure at idle and over 80psi when being run-out. Those pressure figures have never changed since I got the car. My Coyote doesn't consume a noteworthy amount of oil and my catch can always has a consistent amount of oil in it relative to how far I've driven.
I know I am the odd-one out here, but it doesn't really concern me because the noise hasn't accompanied a single ill side-effect that I can find. I've beat on the car and it runs excellent. The sound hasn't gotten any worse or better throughout my course of driving, and it's always there to be found regardless of engine or outside temperature.
That being said, I've still got a year of warranty left and if I do blow it up while being a hoon, I'll let you know.
I know I am the odd-one out here, but it doesn't really concern me because the noise hasn't accompanied a single ill side-effect that I can find. I've beat on the car and it runs excellent. The sound hasn't gotten any worse or better throughout my course of driving, and it's always there to be found regardless of engine or outside temperature.
That being said, I've still got a year of warranty left and if I do blow it up while being a hoon, I'll let you know.
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Diocletian
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I got the same noise on my 2018 a10 with 4400 miles, started around mile 2100. This is a normal noise I'm pretty sure.
GT Pony
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Sure sounds like an RPM & load dependsnt rattle due to excessive parts clearance somewhere.
EgDude
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Yep. I ordered mine july of 2016 and mine started making the noise roughly around 5000 miles. If I push clutch in and coast with clutch in there is no tick. Coast in gear or keep at low rpm it has an annoying tick sound. Curious as to what caused this. I have to bring it in for both rear axle seals....so Ill probably have them look into the noise while its there...My '17 Mustang has a build date of July 2017 and has made this sound from day 1. The symptoms can always be found under part throttle, up to 2000rpm, while rolling in gear (MT82) at light loads or when under no load out of gear. I have always used the OE filter and run Penzoil Platinum 5W20. I have also done Blackstone oil analyses on every drain and they come back pristine. The motor is silent at idle and at higher rpms. It will also never tick/click when above third gear or when there is a good load on the drive line. At full operating temperature in the summer heat, the car makes 20psi of oil pressure at idle and over 80psi when being run-out. Those pressure figures have never changed since I got the car. My Coyote doesn't consume a noteworthy amount of oil and my catch can always has a consistent amount of oil in it relative to how far I've driven.
I know I am the odd-one out here, but it doesn't really concern me because the noise hasn't accompanied a single ill side-effect that I can find. I've beat on the car and it runs excellent. The sound hasn't gotten any worse or better throughout my course of driving, and it's always there to be found regardless of engine or outside temperature.
That being said, I've still got a year of warranty left and if I do blow it up while being a hoon, I'll let you know.
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TheLion
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I wonder if those who have a heavy "tick" or "knock" might have one of two issues: 1. Out of round cylinder liner which seems to be by far the most common source among those who did have their short blocks replaced. 2. Spun rod bearing (seems to be far less common).
The pistons are hyper-eutectic like most common engines, so there's very little expansion and contraction of the pistons due to extremely high silicone content compared to something that is forged like in the GT350 where you get a bit of piston slap when cold that goes away as it warms . While not harmful, it's a side effect of having to use larger clearances due to piston expansion of forged pistons.
Any piston slap in a standard 1st or 2nd gen 5.0 to me says there's an issue with the press in iron liners being out of round. Hyper-eutectic pistons allow for some pretty tight clearances and unless you car has quite a few miles on it (I'd say maybe at 150k~200k it might be normal to get a bit when cold), there should be very little to no slap that's audible, especially with the skirt coatings if still in tact. It's not a new process to manufacture hyper-eutectic pistons as they are in 90% of street cars, I'm doubtful this is fallout from defective pistons.
I know the 1st and 2nd gen 5.0 has fairly thin iron liners (3rd gen has wire arc plasma transfer spray on liners like the Voodoo 5.2), as thin as they can be (only 2mm I believe) without compromising physical integrity while in the block. That might also make them more susceptible to warping when they are pressed in. I'm not sure of the process of pressing cylinder liners into a 5.0 cast aluminum block, but like all processes there is some small production fall out that occurs and it sounds like the most common issue by far is NOT spun rod bearings, cam phasor tick or collapsed lash adjusters, but rather cylinder liners that appear to be out of round and allow excessive piston slap which eventually causes scoring and rapid wear issues.
It also explains why none of these engines seem to grenade immediately (like a rod bearing or snapping a connecting rod), but continue to be driven for thousands of miles while the problem slowly gets worse. A spun rod bearing probably will go pretty quickly after it happens, maybe on or two thousand miles as would a cracked piston. In fact I don't recall anyone reporting a cracked piston and I've seen only one who confirmed a spun rod bearing. All of them occur at very early mileages as well. I don't think I've seen any cars with these issues at 30k+. Here comes that infant mortality thing again :-)
Although those that have this issue comprise only a VERY small percentage of the total number of 5.0's manufactured, like all engines, there's going to be a certain amount of defects and so far unless your tuned they have all been covered under warranty. I'm at a little past 20k miles now myself. Had a Power Pack 2 since 17k miles, car was bone stock before that regarding engine. Oil changes have been at about 5k intervals in the following order:
1. MC 5W-20 semi-syn from the factory obviously
2. MC 5W-20 semi-syn at 5,600 (dealer changed as I bought the car used with 5,600 miles on it)
3. Penzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-20 at 10k
4. MC 5W-20 semi-syn at 15k (couldn't find PUP anywhere in stock for a reasonable price, so went back to factory 5W-20 semi-syn until I decided on something more widely available)
5. Mobil 1 Advanced Synthetic 5W-20 (new formula that is Dexos 1 Gen 2 certified and also meets Ford's spec as well)
I did notice that with both PUP and Mobil 1 that the engine just revs more freely, it's more eger to go and it's great. I can tell there is greater reduction in losses due to friction, possibly some slightly reduced pumping losses as well. Oil pressure is identical to the behavior described by Captain Trips in the post above and has not changed.
I typically use about 1/2 quart ever 5,000 miles (with MC 5W-20, whose only real weakness is a high NOACK rating of 15% loss, otherwise a great oil over all at it's price). My Ecoboost used about 1/8th of a quart every 5,000 miles on AMSOIL and Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 5W-30's, sounds about right as it had well...1/2 of everything the 5.0 does. I've only had a catch can in for about 750 miles right before my last oil change while I was still on MC 5W-20, I got about a table spoon of oil in those 750 miles which included about 20 minutes of heavy constant throttle and plenty of WOT pulls in 2nd and 3rd.
Also I heard the most pronounced ticking with PUP 5W-20. Nothing abnormal, but normal noises seemed a bit more amplified than with MC 5W-20 or Mobil 1. Interestingly enough PUP 5W-20 has a lower viscosity at 40C and a slightly lower viscosity index than MC 5W-20 or Mobil 1 which are nearly identical in that regard. I don't think changing to 5W-30 will solve "BBQ tick" if it's piston slap or a spun rod bearing. It may make it "slightly" quieter by generating higher oil pressure, but your robbing yourself of power to the wheels for a bit of "feel good" noise suppression that has not or will not fix a problem.
The pistons are hyper-eutectic like most common engines, so there's very little expansion and contraction of the pistons due to extremely high silicone content compared to something that is forged like in the GT350 where you get a bit of piston slap when cold that goes away as it warms . While not harmful, it's a side effect of having to use larger clearances due to piston expansion of forged pistons.
Any piston slap in a standard 1st or 2nd gen 5.0 to me says there's an issue with the press in iron liners being out of round. Hyper-eutectic pistons allow for some pretty tight clearances and unless you car has quite a few miles on it (I'd say maybe at 150k~200k it might be normal to get a bit when cold), there should be very little to no slap that's audible, especially with the skirt coatings if still in tact. It's not a new process to manufacture hyper-eutectic pistons as they are in 90% of street cars, I'm doubtful this is fallout from defective pistons.
I know the 1st and 2nd gen 5.0 has fairly thin iron liners (3rd gen has wire arc plasma transfer spray on liners like the Voodoo 5.2), as thin as they can be (only 2mm I believe) without compromising physical integrity while in the block. That might also make them more susceptible to warping when they are pressed in. I'm not sure of the process of pressing cylinder liners into a 5.0 cast aluminum block, but like all processes there is some small production fall out that occurs and it sounds like the most common issue by far is NOT spun rod bearings, cam phasor tick or collapsed lash adjusters, but rather cylinder liners that appear to be out of round and allow excessive piston slap which eventually causes scoring and rapid wear issues.
It also explains why none of these engines seem to grenade immediately (like a rod bearing or snapping a connecting rod), but continue to be driven for thousands of miles while the problem slowly gets worse. A spun rod bearing probably will go pretty quickly after it happens, maybe on or two thousand miles as would a cracked piston. In fact I don't recall anyone reporting a cracked piston and I've seen only one who confirmed a spun rod bearing. All of them occur at very early mileages as well. I don't think I've seen any cars with these issues at 30k+. Here comes that infant mortality thing again :-)
Although those that have this issue comprise only a VERY small percentage of the total number of 5.0's manufactured, like all engines, there's going to be a certain amount of defects and so far unless your tuned they have all been covered under warranty. I'm at a little past 20k miles now myself. Had a Power Pack 2 since 17k miles, car was bone stock before that regarding engine. Oil changes have been at about 5k intervals in the following order:
1. MC 5W-20 semi-syn from the factory obviously
2. MC 5W-20 semi-syn at 5,600 (dealer changed as I bought the car used with 5,600 miles on it)
3. Penzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-20 at 10k
4. MC 5W-20 semi-syn at 15k (couldn't find PUP anywhere in stock for a reasonable price, so went back to factory 5W-20 semi-syn until I decided on something more widely available)
5. Mobil 1 Advanced Synthetic 5W-20 (new formula that is Dexos 1 Gen 2 certified and also meets Ford's spec as well)
I did notice that with both PUP and Mobil 1 that the engine just revs more freely, it's more eger to go and it's great. I can tell there is greater reduction in losses due to friction, possibly some slightly reduced pumping losses as well. Oil pressure is identical to the behavior described by Captain Trips in the post above and has not changed.
I typically use about 1/2 quart ever 5,000 miles (with MC 5W-20, whose only real weakness is a high NOACK rating of 15% loss, otherwise a great oil over all at it's price). My Ecoboost used about 1/8th of a quart every 5,000 miles on AMSOIL and Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 5W-30's, sounds about right as it had well...1/2 of everything the 5.0 does. I've only had a catch can in for about 750 miles right before my last oil change while I was still on MC 5W-20, I got about a table spoon of oil in those 750 miles which included about 20 minutes of heavy constant throttle and plenty of WOT pulls in 2nd and 3rd.
Also I heard the most pronounced ticking with PUP 5W-20. Nothing abnormal, but normal noises seemed a bit more amplified than with MC 5W-20 or Mobil 1. Interestingly enough PUP 5W-20 has a lower viscosity at 40C and a slightly lower viscosity index than MC 5W-20 or Mobil 1 which are nearly identical in that regard. I don't think changing to 5W-30 will solve "BBQ tick" if it's piston slap or a spun rod bearing. It may make it "slightly" quieter by generating higher oil pressure, but your robbing yourself of power to the wheels for a bit of "feel good" noise suppression that has not or will not fix a problem.
GT Pony
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Very suspect - too much rod bearing side clearance.
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/2016-mustang-gt-ticking-issue.107292/page-4#post-2322571
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/2016-mustang-gt-ticking-issue.107292/page-4#post-2322571
spogshd
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Surely this side to side movement will cause the cylinders to wear, would be interesting to see if any of these others have the same slop in the rod ends.
p411mstang
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GT Pony
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Maybe not ... the rod is also moving on the piston pin, so the piston really doesn't see any force from this rod movement. It's too much movement from too much rod side-to-side clearance, and given the right RPM could certainly cause the rods to move while running and cause a ticking noise like heard with engines with the "BBQ Tick" sound.
I can see why Ford just orders up a short block to fix this, because it's probably cheaper than replacing a badly machined crankshaft and/or rods that are out of dimension specifications.
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