Knocking at Idle and Pinging

[usgiorgi]

Though I'd never run 87 octane in a performance car, it shouldn't cause pinging if you choose to do so. That's what knock detectors are for. Even if you do hard pulls, the engine should pull timing to the point where the car feels like a pig, but doesn't damage the engine.

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[Tone Everready]

And I don't care...

Cool.

 

[IPOGT]

No worries. Soon we'll be driving adult RC cars like Tesla and none of this will matter. Like high power electric golf carts.

 

[Tone Everready]

No worries. Soon we'll be driving adult RC cars like Tesla and none of this will matter. Like high power electric golf carts.

Speak for yourself. LOL

 

[66Bronc1]

I am still waiting for diagnosis. I called yesterday and for some reason they could not give me an update. I hope to get a call back today.

 

[Zinc03svt]

Lol. Why are you driving a car you cannot (or do not) want to spend the $ to run the appropriate fuel for best performance? What kind of timing are you getting?

 

[Zinc03svt]

Not trying to beat you up Bronc, but I would sell this car if I could not run E85 anymore. The difference between premium pump to E85 is that much to me. Cannot imagine 87 octane. E is $1.89 where I live btw.

 

[17Magnetic5.0]

I am still waiting for diagnosis. I called yesterday and for some reason they could not give me an update. I hope to get a call back today.

Dealers near me are the same. They’ll get to it when they feel like it. Typically the only way to get an update is waiting for them to call you or actually going to the dealer and waiting for them to give you some kind of info.

 

[stangman638]

Dealers near me are the same. They’ll get to it when they feel like it. Typically the only way to get an update is waiting for them to call you or actually going to the dealer and waiting for them to give you some kind of info.

I bet if you call a different dealer tell em the car is 5 years old and your paying cash they will fix asap.. warranty work they know you are at their mercy and they put it on the back burner

 

[Mrmarkmac]

After 700 miles, I made my first fill on 91, and the next day I got the tick. Not sure it was related but I outlined it to dealer when I took it in for the first time.

 

[66Bronc1]

Went to the dealer on Friday. Met with the SM and the GT tech. The tech was an older guy, very experienced, the SM was very young. The tech explained that he for sure heard the rattle- loud and clear. But they did not listen for the knock at idle or the pinging. Must have got lost in the translation.......They said the rattle was not anything they would do anything about but both said the pinging was not a good sign......and the car should not ping even using 87 octane fuel. I had asked if any other 5.0 had these issues. They said only one- and it needed a new engine.

So the car is there for the second week, had to start with another appointment from scratch for them to listen for the pinging and knocking at idle. They were also going to check the VIN and see the date of the engine manufacture.

 

[ihc95]

Running 87 octane with 12:1 compression is something I’ll never understand. I don’t care what the owners manual says.


Have you tried filling with 93 and seeing if the knocking/pinging goes away?

 

[Schwerin]

Running 87 octane with 12:1 compression is something I’ll never understand. I don’t care what the owners manual says.


Have you tried filling with 93 and seeing if the knocking/pinging goes away?

Because it's about the amount of timing run, not just the Oct and compression. There shouldn't be an issue idling on even 13 or 14:1 on 87 if the cars tuned properly. The Mazda SkyActive-X uses 87 and goes up to over 16:1. At some points MUCH higher.

"When possible, the engine operates in a manner similar to diesel engines, albeit with premixed air and directly injected fuel. Air comes in, swirling about, creating a nice homogenous air-fuel blend as the piston reaches the top of its travel. Ideally, the air-fuel ratio is about 37:1 at this point. You’ve read that correctly, about 2.5 times as lean as a traditional gasoline engines! In the center of that swirling air-fuel mixture, the eye of the storm remains calm. Here, the direct fuel injector spritzes a light addition of gasoline, dropping the air-fuel ratio nearest the spark plug to approximately 29:1." https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a17171105/mazda-skyactiv-x-how-it-works/

 

[Tone Everready]

Because it's about the amount of timing run, not just the Oct and compression. There shouldn't be an issue idling on even 13 or 14:1 on 87 if the cars tuned properly. The Mazda SkyActive-X uses 87 and goes up to over 16:1. At some points MUCH higher.

"When possible, the engine operates in a manner similar to diesel engines, albeit with premixed air and directly injected fuel. Air comes in, swirling about, creating a nice homogenous air-fuel blend as the piston reaches the top of its travel. Ideally, the air-fuel ratio is about 37:1 at this point. You’ve read that correctly, about 2.5 times as lean as a traditional gasoline engines! In the center of that swirling air-fuel mixture, the eye of the storm remains calm. Here, the direct fuel injector spritzes a light addition of gasoline, dropping the air-fuel ratio nearest the spark plug to approximately 29:1." https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a17171105/mazda-skyactiv-x-how-it-works/

But we AREN'T talking about the The Mazda SkyActive-X. I wish people would stop bring that up in these discussions.

 

[Schwerin]

But we AREN'T talking about the The Mazda SkyActive-X. I wish people would stop bring that up in these discussions.

No we are talking about compression, and timing, and physics don't change. Honda also ran over 11:1 in an old Prelude and still ran on 87. High compression engines can easily run 87 if they are tuned for it. The fact the manual says that 87 is fine on our engine means it IS FINE, have a problem? It's a warranty issue, or bad tank of fuel. Not a "it's to high compression, you should run 91+ ignore what Ford says" issue. People used to think you HAD to run premium in the Taurus SHO v6 with its "high" 9.8:1 compression. Yet people still ran 87 and even 85 on that just fine. Why? Because it had properly done timing curves. It didn't even have Knock Sensors to keep it alive.

This isn't the 60's or even 80's or 90's and we have smart ECU's now.

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